After these days~

Of all the teachings on the blood moons, have you noticed that the recent historical record shows they followed the occurrences they have been related to, and not preceded them?! There is a differential of one day after to two years after the 'significant occurrence'.
And the Bible says the same.  What conclusions do we have?  The blood moons don't count after all?  There's some we're not aware of?  We're really, really close??? Closer than we dare imagine?
It seems like everyone who teaches about the blood moons talks as if they come FIRST.  Yet their examples of the significance of the blood moons show them as coming AFTER an historical moment.


^{Matthew 24:29} “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  ³⁰ Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  ³¹ And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus opens the seals while yet in heaven.  And I'm looking at the fifth seal of Rev. 6, which doesn't fit the pattern at all.  (5=the number of Grace)


^{Rev. 6:9} And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
¹⁰ And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
¹¹ And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Those crying for judgement are those who have died in Christ.  They receive their white robes.  I believe the white robes represent our redeemed, incorruptible bodies.  And the 'dead in Christ' put on incorruptible bodies at the Rapture, when we who are alive and remain are caught up together with them in the clouds.


Yet,  all the redeemed who are now in heaven with Jesus must still wait for awhile longer for the Judgement Seat of Christ separation of  the sheep and the goats, and judgement of the nations, which occur on earth at the Millennial Reign.

Matthew 25:

³¹ “When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all his angels are with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.  ³² The people of every nation will be gathered in front of him. He will separate them as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.  ³³ He will put the sheep on his right but the goats on his left.
³⁴ “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, my Father has blessed you! Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world.  ³⁵ I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger, and you took me into your home.  ³⁶ I needed clothes, and you gave me something to wear. I was sick, and you took care of me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’


I think this time of waiting covers the Tribulation period. The saints must yet wait in heaven for the souls who come to Christ during the Tribulation before coming back with Jesus at the Second Coming.

   
We know Jesus opens the seals while yet in heaven.  Verse 12 brings us back to the 6th seal, and it is called the Wrath of the Lamb.  But We are not appointed to wrath, but Redemption.
I know many look to a 6th seal Rapture.  I think the Rapture could well be the cause of the 6th seal.  And I've tried real hard through the years to make it  more complicated, but I think the 5th seal is the answer.  The worst case scenario I can come up from everything we've heard is 6th seal first, then 3 days of darkness, then Rapture.  If so, I can Live with that. 


¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Thanks Dove for posting this!

Blood moons and the rapture coming after the tribulation? 
We are in the tribulation now.

I'm thinking a lot is going to happen in the next 7-8 months.

the fifth seal guys that are given white robes are all believers from abraham, now dead and present with the Lord, we are alive and remain, waiting 4 the catching away because we are...

lk21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

the blood moon & sun going dark happen before that day...

acts2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

the sheep and the goats are separated because of how they treated His brethren, this is the white throne judgment of the dead at the end

the trib saints are the 1st resurrection that rule with Christ in the millennium...

rev20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

sixminks wrote:

Blood moons and the rapture coming after the tribulation? 
We are in the tribulation now.

I just heard a sermon about how Jacob (as Kingsman Redeemer) labored for 7 years
for Rachel and was given Leah instead.  He then labored another 7 years for Rachel.
(After that he labored another 6 years for his herds, the dowry.)
The point of the sermon is that Rachel is Israel, Leah is the church.

The first time I heard this sermon was about 5-6 years ago.  That time the sermon was delivered supernaturally when my vcr turned on by itself and started recording.
The tv was off as well, but I turned it on to see what was recording.  At the end of
the program, the tv turned off by itself!

I could have been completely freaked out, but it was only several days after an angel (not an earth angel) came and sat beside me for a short time and helped me with a situation I'd been desperately praying over.  So, the atmosphere was still ripe, I guess you could say.  The consequence of this, and other things that have been 'said'-'heard' is that I am a pre-Tribulation Rapture believer!  So, I'm not unbiased in my reading of the Word. 

But is the blood moon tetrad that which verse 24:29 is referring to?  I don't know.


Are we in the Tribulation?  Or in the 'beginning of sorrows'.  Is this Jesus
'tarrying' as He mentioned? 

It would be good to clarify just one principle in a way that would hold up against any other possible interpretation.  Never mind a whole timeline.

dovie, there is only 1 interpretation, so lets clarify just one principal, i've tried this, maybe with your help we can stay on point to the logical conclution, ok which 1 to start with?

here is a refresher...on the blood moons


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxNjTveS8ys

murray leslie wrote:

dovie, there is only 1 interpretation, so lets clarify just one principal, i've tried this, maybe with your help we can stay on point to the logical conclution, ok which 1 to start with?

You know I love you dearly, and fortunately you and I are both pre trib which takes the pressure off knowing the order of things precisely.  And it certainly isn't as if I've neglected the teachings at all through the years. 
So, sure, God's order is perfect and not subject to interpretation.  The Followers, however, seem to have no end of interpretations, especially when we overlay Daniel, and what we see transpiring in the world.

But yes, I'll pick one and we can put it in it's correct place, rule out any seemingly conflicting verses, and build from there.
It's just that I'll need a few days delay due to daily life commitments.  I can pm you when I can start.  Thank you for the offer.  It will be fun and edifying, no doubt.

I do have a general question.  Do you think that Jesus taught anything about the Rapture, or was the revelation given first to Paul by the Spirit?
I  think our conclusion about this has to be based on what we find in the four Gospels, and not the Book of Luke, because Luke spent alot of time with Paul.

off the top...

john14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

He does not say, after seven years of suck, i will come get u, so be troubled, cause u probably wont make it...

Umm.  Actually Christians since He spoke those words have suffered major 'suck' indeed.  I think here He's talking about Life (after earthly life) in heaven (or first on earth during the Millennial Reign). In other words, life where He is and we are present with Him, and not regarding just the last generation who may be translated while yet alive.

Dove wrote:

The first time I heard this sermon was about 5-6 years ago.  That time the sermon was delivered supernaturally when my vcr turned on by itself and started recording.
The tv was off as well, but I turned it on to see what was recording.  At the end of
the program, the tv turned off by itself!

I remember that! I'm eager to hear what you and Murray come up with. I was listening to a P.I.D. podcast from this week and Derek had a fella on there Dr. Doug Stauffer  who was pre-trib  and he had some good points. Here's the link to their page and the radio player is down to the right a bit.

OOps! Sorry! The chickens just started a ruckus and I forgot to post it.  P.I.D. Radio

Doug's been on prophecy watchers very recently too.

https://prophecywatchers.com/videos/defending-pre-trib-rapture-doug-stauffer/

PID has teamed up with Gary, and Tom Horn too, I guess. 

SkyWatchTV and Gilbert House Ministries are delighted to announce that Derek and Sharon Gilbert will join the SkyWatch TV network team beginning in March, 2015.

ok, yes there is suck in our lives, but we have passed from death to life, because we believe on Him...

in this passage, all i see is Him tell His bride, i go, which we saw, those of us present @ that time, and promise to come 4 us again, the dead 1st, as per...

1cor15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

i believe this dispensation stops @ the rapture, which gives birth to the dispensation of wrath, which includes the tribulation saints, that are the 1st resurrection to rule and so forth with Christ 4 the millennium, @ this time, from the rapture, we are inhabiting the City of God...

this all works perfectly in my mind, i'm just trying to use my words, well u know how that goes...

hey del, i like chicken...inappropriate right?

I agree, Murray.  The Rapture closes the door on the Church Age.  (I'm going to leave out saying 'The Age of Grace' because that requires alot of defining and defending).

Now that I've brought up the teaching on Jacob, Leah and Rachel again,well...I take it as it was given,yet try to always be open to His correction.

And the other day I heard a sermon and posted what was said that 'persecution is not tribulation'.  Actually, I think it most certainly is!  Maybe they were trying to say the persecution of the saints and martyrs throughout history was not THE (final) Tribulation.

As Rev.6 does speak of the 'wrath of the Lamb", which is not the 'wrath of God', perhaps that lends credence to two endtimes seven year periods.  Many mid-tribbers already accept two 3 1/2 year
periods of time, and believe that the final 3 1/2 years is for the Redemption of all Israel.  

As we could think to already be in the Tribulation, yet are stymied by all the things that must yet
happen with Israel....I mean whatever "holy Place' John was referring to requires a whole seven
years to play out, among other reasons.  But still we see so much happening that lines up with Revelation, just maybe not in the severity we would expect from the Word and the Proving of the Word throughout history.

So, we know how to live to be counted worthy.  Do the things that Jesus said 'do', receive and submit to the Spirit of God to accomplish the Will of God,  and the rest will take care of itself.

What a wonderful endeavor Dove! i look forward to reading your studies. May the Holy Spirit be with you and guide you all the way. You are going to have so much fun and be wholly blessed!

Thank you for your encouraging words Lovisa.  Yet truth be known, I've been thinking on how to back out gracefully.   We've done this so many times and most are done budging, even though  we'd like to know more precisely just where we're at on God's timetable.

As Dr. Stauffer began his talk on PID he mentioned how it is imperative  that we know who the text is speaking to and speaking of.  And that does seem to be the crux of 'our' (the Body) differing.  (context determines meaning, he says.)

Amazon lists 1609 books on the 'end times of the Bible'.  I'm sure there are many more.  We probably don't need mine, all in all. 

I've recently gone to the end of the Book and worked backwards to locate the church.  It gives a fresh perspective.

murray leslie wrote:

hey del, i like chicken...inappropriate right?

Good Hello, Murray!   You should have heard all the happy hens when I gave them some of the Christmas chicken and noodles. Apparently they like chicken too. lol

Jesus said...in this world you will have tribulation....but I think that's not from God, it's the enemy. So we suffer it FOR God...later.... THE tribulation...it's from God....a lot worse! Could that be how it might be?

i think so yaddy, i would not want to be in striking distance when...

zep3:8b: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.

I think so too, Yaddy.  There is the thought of God removing his Hand of protection, so that all that has been written will be fulfilled. 
What we are seeing now is part of satan's last big push, imo.

we might have to wait all the way to rosh hashana for me to meet u guys, i think it will be worth it...