Will we love the darkness more than the Light?

I believe many think when the question comes up about a non-believer or a believer "Pleasing God" they see the red flag of trying to do something through works that will bring about salvation.

A man/woman will not always do right,no matter if they are believers or non-believers,not that all can never do right. When they do right does this please God?...."I believe it can."

I believe Jesus went straight to the heart of this issue in Matthew 7.


Matthew 7:9-11


Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?


Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?


If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?





Jesus is certainly pointing to the fact that they are evil but they can give good gifts. If Jesus is telling us they are good gifts,then he sees them as good. If they are good are they not pleasing?


Did Jesus (The Son) please The Father by going to John The Baptist and being baptized?....."Sure he did".


Matthew 3:16-17


And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:


And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.




2 Peter 1:17


For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


Jesus going to the cross pleased The Father,because it was the Father's Will. Jesus wasn't about pleasing himself or doing his will. It was all about doing the Will of The Father and pleasing The Father.

Can believers please God?....."Sure they did and still can".


There is no way I as a believer have a free pass either. I do not always please God just because I'm a believer.

Can a believer not please God?......."Take no further look than David." God was certainly not pleased with David lusting after Bathsheba and following up with having her husband Uriah killed to have her for himself.

Can a believer please God?......."Did not this same David please God many times?"

Does it please God for non-believers to become believers?........"I don't see how it can't".

Once a person becomes a believer is it that they can't please God anymore?

So if I become a believer and it pleases God, why would I never be able to please God again as a believer?......."Makes no sense to me".

Some can sit and bear little fruit while some bear much fruit. Does bearing fruit please God?...."I certainly believe it does."

Are we not to be "Imagers of God?

Can believers please God more than some or less than some?....."Scripture certainly appears to point in this direction." Isn't it better to take those talents and build upon them or bury them in the ground?......"Which pleases God more?"

Scarz, i am reading, just not posting....i enjoy what you write, even though sometimes i don't agree with everything, just as you don't agree with everything that i write....keep on keeping on

Dove wrote:

Quote :

So if I become a believer and it pleases God, why would I never be able to please God again as a believer?......."Makes no sense to me".
I'm confused.  Where did this thought come from?  As you say, it's nonsensical. 

I guess I should have explained better. I was in a discussion with some believers who think believers can never please God. This was my response to them and I thought I would share it here. 

They see it more as glorifying instead of pleasing.

michael371 wrote:

Scarz, i am reading, just not posting....i enjoy what you write, even though sometimes i don't agree with everything, just as you don't agree with everything that i write....keep on keeping on

I was wondering what happened to you Michael. Hope to see you posting soon.

I don't expect everybody to agree with me. I just enjoy letting others see where I stand and hope others will lay out their thoughts and beliefs.

Thank Goodness you had a chance to clarify things for them.    

So, I did a little search.  first on Glorifying God.  Simple answer:  to give Glory to Him. To Honor, worship, praise Him, magnify His Name, give thanks. We live our lives as a 'living testament to His
Glory".  
How?  Back to Matthew, which you were all over: Matt. 5:16  In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.


And maybe that's the initial point, at any rate.  If I am unsaved, who receives the thanks for my good works?  Just me.  And 'me' has a million limitations.  God does not.  And He is interested in drawing all men to HIM.  We can open doors by giving Him the Glory as we do the 'good thing'. 


Jesus did that, saying "why do you call Me good?  There is none good save [except] God."
and
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

John 7:14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.


John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Scripture certainly supports that during the 1,000 year period of time before The Adversary is released from the bottomless pit (Abyss) that there will be nations who will not journey to Jerusalem as they are suppose to. Scripture is very plain that if they do not,they will receive no rain on their lands.


Zechariah 14:16-17


And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.


And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.



Just because The Adversary is in a prison doesn't mean for one second that everyone is without a rebellious heart. I believe there will be nations and peoples that will have families,as we do today. The one huge difference is they will live on this earth without The Adversary and his forces always being in the mix. No longer harassment by foul spirits.

People will be ruled and taught what is of God. This world will no longer have it's deed in the back pocket of dark forces. Children will be born into this world and live a life all of us can only dream of living.

But once The Adversary is free to roam,then in an overhead view a picture will unfold of who each person really is. If all creation is to remain in free will,then each of us must graduate by always choosing good over evil. We must put off self and put on oneness. If we can't do this,then our names will be blotted out of the book of life.

In My Fathers house are many mansions. I believe we who choose good over evil,and oneness over self will be a mansion in the house of My Father. Jesus Christ made "The Way" for you and I to become that mansion.


John 14:2........"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

Morning!  You know I agree with a great deal of what you're sharing.  There are only a few things I pull out to converse about.  And I really love what you're doing here, and your willingness to share.
Like this one made me think:  
I believe all of us are on a path and as we travel onward new avenues will open up for understanding. It never will be "WHAM!" It's all about growing step by step. There is not one person on the face of this earth that knows it all. If they tell you or imply that to you in any way,turn from them.
So...you know how people are called an 'overnight success', and they laugh about it because they know all they went through to get to that moment.   And I too went through a lifetime of 'building', learning, seeking (in less than optimum ways).  But there did come a day that was a WHAM.  To describe it would take many paragraphs.  I usually refer to it as a 'flip' because it turns what we take to be reality upside down.  
It was the day the Spirit took control over me.  All of a sudden everything I'd heard or read went live-became real, actually happened.
Now, like you say, I didn't suddenly know everything.  In fact it was the beginning of a whole new learning.
But...it surely was a WHAM, and it's like nothing before, and I can understand now how others might have a knock down, fall out experience that leaves them laughing. 
[I happened to be sitting down, so no need to 'fall out'   ] There is such Joy and Awe and Wonder in the Person of the Spirit.  And to realize that it's all True...is as mind blowing as if you looked up from prayer and Jesus was standing there.    

Dove......Good post!

I agree that we can all have an awakening and a new life begins. There is no doubt many times I have been reading scripture and it's just like a light switch is turned on. I have read the text many times before and never really got anything other than reading words from it. I truly believe it is so valuable to read and study The Bible.

Really the main point of what I was trying to get over is that as a Believer and Follower we never come to the end of the road of learning and understanding. I believe that to be the case in this mortal body as well as in our future heavenly body. I don't see a Wham! and now we will never advance beyond that point. I believe through all eternity we will continue a journey of learning.

 ScaRZ said, I believe through all eternity we will continue a journey of learning.


Me too! Definitely.  How could we ever come to the end of All that God is.  
Those light bulb moments with scripture.  I call that [right or wrong] the 'quickened Word', in that it 'comes alive'.  I think we are sensing the "Life" in the Word.


And that to me is the goal of the Word: To find, to come to the Revelation of THE LIFE in the Word.


I've heard it taught that there are 4 levels of the reading and understanding of scripture, the fourth being the Spiritual level.  This type of interpretation is offensive to some.
And goodness knows we've seen it very misused over the years.
-------
It's later now. So much that could be said...I got overwhelmed. 
This is a good read of just scripture, and has some good links.
So I'll finish for now with this:
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/The-Holy-Spirit,-And-Scripture

Matthew 24:29........"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"


Isaiah 13:10........"For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine."


I believe a short time just before the coming of Jesus Christ will be a very dark time for this earth. When someone stands looking out into the sky (Heavens,Space) it will be totally jet black. There will be "No" light of the sun. Without the light of the sun,the stars,and moon will have no light. 


Matthew 24:27......."For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


I believe a great bright light will be seen coming and light up the whole sky (Heavens,Space) from east to west and every eye will indeed see him coming.


Matthew 24:30........"And then shall appear The Sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."


The Sign is that bright light of Jesus Christ presence (Coming) as it shines forth in the heavens. This is the sign that Jesus was ask about of his disciples in Matthew 24:3........"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

If anyone says the Messiah or the Christ have arrived before The Sign occurs,do not believe them,do not follow after them in any way,shape or form........"It will be a lie". Don't fall prey to slick tongues and signs and wonders that will draw you into the trap. 


Don't forget the words of Jesus Christ. He warned us over and over.


Matthew 24:24-26


For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Behold, I have told you before.


Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

I believe this event of his coming........"This Sign of his coming"........will be a very sudden happening. He will come upon "Those of The World" as a thief in the night. Those of the day (Light) will not be sleeping as are they of the night (Darkness).

This sign,this event is what I'm referring to, is the Light that will stretch across the heavens from east to west. This event is what is written about in Revelation 19. Remember also "The Brightness" of Jesus Christ coming spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2:8........"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"

Be sure and keep in mind that in Revelation 9 The Abyss was opened,now Heaven will be opened and Jesus Christ and the armies (Host of Heaven) are "Coming". When the Bottomless Pit (Abyss) is opened, darkness described as the smoke of a great furnace rises out of it. When Heaven is opened a bright light stretches across the heavens.


Revelation 19:11-16




And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.




His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.




And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.




And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.




And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.




And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Dove........I agree with you on the 1,000 year reign "On this earth."

I do not believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture. This is in my opinion a topic (The Rapture) that can become a hugh war of words. I have been on several forums over the years and the whole rapture thing was more about a firefight than anything close to good conversation and study.

I had an atheist ask me this question a few years ago in a forum and this was one experience I shared with them.........."Have you ever had a profound spiritual experience that changed you?"



I hear people all the time ask for proof of there being God. I can tell them my story,I can post scripture,I can point to all the signs around them,but there is no way I can prove it to them. This I believe is a place reserved in each individual that no man can touch.

One spiritual experience I had was a lady that came up to me in a grocery store a few years ago. I was wondering around in the produce department when a lady suddenly came out of nowhere and was standing right in front of me. I looked up making eye to eye contact with her, she smiled and ask,"You're a Christian aren't you?" I answered her saying,"Yes I am." Then I ask,"How did you know?" She then answering said,"I just knew."

I then told her she had to be a Christian because her eyes were so full of life. She shared with me how and when she received Christ in her life. Told me the darkness that she lived until that day she finally ask Christ into her life. The next thing I knew she reached into her purse and pulled out a small wooden cross and told me she wanted me to have it.

People can think all this is nonsense and is all one big chance encounter,but I don't believe it for one minute. God knew I was going through a very tough time in my life at that time and was very down. I believe with all my heart that God guided her to me through his spirit.

ScaRZ wrote:

Dove........I agree with you on the 1,000 year reign "On this earth."

I do not believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture. This is in my opinion a topic (The Rapture) that can become a hugh war of words. I have been on several forums over the years and the whole rapture thing was more about a firefight than anything close to good conversation and study.

scarz, i always ask pre-tribbers to read to me,from the bible, about where it talks about a pre-trib "rapture".....not one has ever done it.....why?.....its not there and they were just repeating what they had been told, or more like gleaned from a bunch of penecostal false teachings....the bible clearly states a "catching away" right before the return of Christ, at the first sound of the 7th, and LAST TRUMP!!!!!!! then, begins the wrath of God

michael371 wrote:

scarz, i always ask pre-tribbers to read to me,from the bible, about where it talks about a pre-trib "rapture".....not one has ever done it.....why?.....its not there and they were just repeating what they had been told, or more like gleaned from a bunch of penecostal false teachings....the bible clearly states a "catching away" right before the return of Christ, at the first sound of the 7th, and LAST TRUMP!!!!!!! then, begins the wrath of God

Michael......I agree with you all the way. I've even heard some preachers try and say "The Last Trump" is not the seventh trumpet,but refers to the Feast of Trumpets and the Jewish practice of blowing trumpets at this feast each year. They will try anything to get the rapture theory to fit. They must find a way around The Last Trump being The Seventh Trumpet of The Book of Revelation.

In the Book of Enoch the 200 Watchers that took wives were divided into ten groups it appears, with each group having a leader over them. 

Now where does this story sound familiar?

None other than that of the Beast of Revelation (The Antichrist-Abaddon) when he is a king of kings over ten kings who are given power by the Antichrist to rule over ten kingdoms.


In no way can people take the Mark of The Beast and later receive the Seal of God.

If it [were] possible even the very elect would be deceived. This is some strong deception here people. We're not just talking about a mere card trick. 

I don't believe our minds are now capable of comprehending how strong this deception will be. It's all about our minds being the property of The Adversary or God the Father. Remember, you can't serve two masters.

Morning ScaRZ.    10 Kings-very astute.  On the deception?  I have some thoughts.

One day, in total frustration, I posted a threat titled: HOW do they NOT GET IT? !!!!
There are those who knowingly defy Righteousness in favor of personal gain. They are of their father, the devil.  But there are others who lack ANY and ALL discernment of even elemental right and wrong-good and evil.   They would have been in the crowd hollering 'Crucify Him'.
Yet even now Jesus would turn their hearts and save them if He could.

There is enough outright evil out there to boggle the mind...so many things that are too much of an assault to decency to even post. I wouldn't ask another to even read it.

But on a larger scale, we have the NWO-a global governance.  And 'Socialism' as it's arm.

The end times Ultimate Deception must be when Israel and the world mistake the antichrist for Jesus Christ.

The [evil] Powers That Be have weakened the moral compass and social structure of all societies.
To be free from that oppression to the point of actually seeing and witnessing what has happened is almost impossible.
When all their energies are consumed by trying to keep their heads above water, who can blame them for not waxing philosophical, or studying to learn the 'bigger picture'.

Then the modern day 'prosperity' church feeds right into the endless pursuit of 'misguided goals'.
We're surrounded by congregations who, in trying to save their lives, will lose their Life.
There is nothing wrong with SAFETY AND SECURITY IN CHRIST, and EVERYTHING wrong with 'safety and security' as the world offers it.

In other words, I think we're waist deep into the Deception. And when the Voice of the Spirit and of the Bride is heard no more on the earth, I think all the rest will happen very quickly. [as in somewhere between 3 1/2 and 7 years.  lol]
And there isn't too much I push ahead of us into the future anymore.

Dove wrote:

HOW do they NOT GET IT? !!!!

Morning Dove.......I believe humanity doesn't get it because they don't really want to get it. The World and The Things of The World are their gods. 

The great cloud of humanity live for what they can get. It doesn't matter how they can get it, even if they must take it (Lie,cheat,scam,even murder) to get it. Love is nothing more for humanity than the four letter word ....."Lust"..... lust of the flesh,lust of the eyes and the pride of life. 

When one looks out into the great sea of humanity with truly open eyes what do those open eyes see?........."Take...Eat...Consume"...all The World offers and grow fat off all The Worldly pleasures.

Think back in The Garden what The Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil was all about. The serpent offered the fruit that needed to be taken and consumed. Human eyes lusted......"Then reached out taking and then consuming what was offered."

All the human senses lusted after what The World and The Things of The World offered. Humanity to this very day continues to take,eat and consume what that Tree offers.

I guess it's easier for them to change their beliefs about God than it is to accept personal responsibility, never mind a belief in judgement or hell.  [the voice of the tempter: "Did God really say you would surely die?]

And speaking of hell, is that something you've really looked at?  I haven't researched it out but have heard some say it isn't even in the Bible. [I expect that's just semantics]

And is the Lake of fire a 'spiritual' thing or a physical-on the earth-thing?  And is it just for satan and his army of fallen angels, or for human souls too?

Dove wrote:

And speaking of hell, is that something you've really looked at?

And is the Lake of fire a 'spiritual' thing or a physical-on the earth-thing?  And is it just for satan and his army of fallen angels, or for human souls too?

Yes Dove.....I've been in several discussions on Hell and also The Lake of Fire.

After years of study on these subjects I will lay out where I stand today. I will try and keep it from being long and drawn out. 

I think most view hell as an eternal fire burning life for all those who do not accept Jesus Christ. All the wicked placed in hell with the devil,the fallen angels and demons. No true death for any of them,just an eternal hell life never ending.

This to me does not line up with scripture......."Because how does anyone or anything live eternally without Jesus Christ?".........They don't!!!

I do not believe we are an eternal soul. The Bible is very plain that only through Jesus Christ can we obtain eternal life. Without Jesus Christ there is no eternal life......"Anywhere."


1John 5:12


He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.


I do believe in an eternal death for both humanity as well as The Adversary and his host. Their final total destruction will come in The Lake of Fire. 

Once again it all comes down to how is it possible to live eternally in any form without our names written in The Book of Life?........."It isn't!!!"


Rev 20:15......." And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."


The Lake of Fire is the final carried out judgement. I believe the Lake of Fire could be the earth as it burns........"Then later a new heaven as well as a new earth will take form as a rebirth."

OMG!!!! scarz, this is mindblowing!!!!....man, i gotta' tell you, this floored me, because i was going to post a little something that came to mind concerning hell today...i was carrying my wife to get her license renewed and this thought just popped in my head concerning hell and exactly what it was!!!this is wow wow stuff rite'cheer,baw....Christ on the cross, told us what hell really was....again, scarz, i agree with you...i like how you follow scripture but still think outside the box rather than  take the sheeple  approach

its simple: hell is the removal/separation of the spirit/life of God from the man....you are correct that man does not have a soul, HE IS a living soul and the life is directly from the dna of God himself, period!...Christ cried out,"Father, why have you forsaken me?"......the  Father, separated himself from the Son, and all the heaps of sin committed by the children of God were  piled upon Him....all manner of sin,evil, everything, and He became sin....then, He died....perfect example of what you said when you said there is no life without Christ....the moment that He died, it was finished...Jesus went BACK to His rightful place....remember the serpent on the pole?....as long as the "serpent was held aloft, the good guys had the advantage....that was the symbolism for Christ on the cross....one has to be able to see Christ in the OT to understand this...Hell is not a pool of fire....errrrybody wants to point to the parable of Lazurus and the rich dude....the rich man wanting just a dab of water, and most all think it was because he was "hot"....water is a symbol for what?....the spirit/life of God, right?....the rich guy was left with nothing but the "flames" of regret when the Life was removed and all he had to sustain him was the corruption from the "fruit" that adam and eve "consumed".....and that sustains nothing...that was a parable, not a real event.....the hellfire and brimstone stuff comes from the lake of fire and it is SPECIFICALLY reserved for the devil and his "angels" which i assume are supernatural, due to the eternal punishment and torment, since angels are eternal beings and cannot die a physical death...i suppose the watchers are part of this group also...

crazy this happened....i was going to post a little thought and get your opinion on this very thing, hell and how Jesus told us exactly what it was by His death on the cross....now, scarz, i am going to point out a little point of contention that i have with the way that you phrase something, when i get time....i am trying to plant a garden, which will probably have to be my last one, and typing is just getting too painful to try and main a presence on 4 forums....the voice/text programs don't handle this southern drawl very well and i am not going to speak like a damned yankee just to get the damn thing to operate halfway right....it would be easier to send smoke signals

Great to see you posting again Michael.

You made some awesome points in your lay out Michael. Wow!!! Great thinking on the subject of hell.

What you said about the spirit/life of man shows a great picture of The Man (Adam) doesn't it. Formed from the dust of earth, then came the gift of life from God as the breath of life (The spirit) enters him....."Then and only then did The Man (Adam) become a living soul." Adam was now a living breathing creature with a mind,a will and emotions. Think in threes here......Father,Son and Holy Spirit.....Body,Spirit and Soul......Mind,Will and Emotions. 

Many believe the Soul is like an orb or object placed inside humans. In no way does this align with scripture. This is nothing more than The New Age mixing to destroy the truth.


I will be back later to add some thoughts to what you posted.

No wonder you were thinking on hell, Michael, headed to the Registry of Motor Vehicles as you were. 

I most certainly believe The Adversary as well as The Heavenly Host who rebelled and became adversaries of God,all their destinies were sealed in The Lake of Fire a long time ago. They now continually seek a way around their fate. 

Humans names that are not found written in The Book of Life at the judgement will share the same fate in The Lake of Fire.The Book of Revelation very clearly points this out. Jesus Christ never said anything about everyone obtaining "Eternal Life". If one doesn't receive eternal life then they will have no form of life in them after the judgement. For humans as The Book of Revelation states......."The Lake of Fire is the second death." 

I believe the future holds a place for creation without any place for Hell or The Lake of Fire in creation. If they are there somewhere,then they remain a part of creation. This is no different than sin......"It can be no part of creation." All must be consumed and like smoke in the wind disappear totally from all creation.





Some people believe there were "Spiritless" pre-Adamic beings on this earth at one point in time.

I personally don't believe there could have been any spiritless pre-Adamic beings. If they had "The Breath of Life" then they can't be spiritless.

If there was a pre-Adamic race then they very well could have been a creation "Without" being created in "The Image of God". They would still have been given the spirit of life from God as all living breathing creatures have,but not be "Imagers of God".

The first earth age would have placed them on earth before "The Rebellion" of The Adversary and many of the heavenly host. They along with all other earth born life fell under the influence of The Rebellion and the first earth age was destroyed as a great war was fought in the heavens.

Many people just don't see the spirit world for what it really is. There is a spiritual war going on all the time around us. 


Daniel 10:12-14 


Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. 


But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. 


Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision [is] for [many] days. 



Below is some great comments on this passage from Ron Dart's booklet he wrote called [The Tracks of the Devil]. 



Now the vision Daniel received in answer to his prolonged prayer is fascinating enough, but in the process of revealing the vision, the messenger of God dropped a small piece of tantalising information. Most of us believe that God is all powerful, that all He has to do is say the word and all powers, human and demonic, fall down before Him. Yet here is an emissary of God who is held up for three weeks by someone called the 'Prince of Persia.' Who is this 'Prince of Persia' and how was he able to thwart an angel of the Almighty? 


Consider the picture. Daniel fasts and prays to God. God hears him and immediately dispatches an answer. The problem is that Daniel is inside the kingdom of Persia, and God's messenger has to fight his way in! It is no small battle—it takes three weeks to make it. Think what this means. There was a spirit being, called the Prince of Persia, who was strong enough to stand off an angel of God for three weeks. In the end, it takes two to one odds to win, and the battle is still not over. Michael, another Prince of God, keeps the Prince of Persia busy while the angel comes to Daniel to deliver the message. 


One would have thought that God could have whispered in Daniel's ear, or that the angel could simply have materialised in Daniel's room....What this story reveals to us, almost as an aside, is that there is a spiritual world alongside our world, invisible to us, but real, vibrant, alive and dangerous. We use the word infrastructure to describe the physical structure underlying our society—water pipes, sewers, utilities—things underground and invisible, but real and necessary, nonetheless. What comes as a shock is the fact that there is also a spiritual infrastructure—unseen, unsensed, invisible, but nonetheless real and powerful. Not only is there a spirit world co-existing with our own, but there are spiritual battles routinely fought around us, and the outcome is by no means automatic (p.3-4).

I believe our fleshly body goes back to the dust from which it came. The spirit will go back to God who gave it. 

I have never understood the whole teaching of when you die you go directly to Heaven or Hell. Man! I've had long discussions with mainstream churches on this subject. If we die and go directly to Heaven to be with the Father,then why is there a need for a resurrection? Why is there a need for a judgment,where every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess? Why do we need our bodies in a resurrection if we're already living a heavenly life in Heaven? 

If we are already in Hell after our death,then once again,why do we need a resurrection? What is the purpose of the Father placing our judged self back in our bodies? We had to have already been judged or we would have never been in Hell. So why must he place our life back in our dead bodies from Hell to live again and be cast into the lake of fire? Why a Hell at all,when the road always led to the lake of fire?

If the grave [deep sleep] is only a holding tank of sorts then now I understand the need of the resurrection. 

Without the body there can be no life as we know it. Without the spirit to place back into the body there can be no living soul.

You didn't mention this, but it comes up often enough and I just read it.

Ephesians 1 : 10 that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

BTW, ScaRZ.  Just saying, please don't feel any need to wait on me. [for the sake of politeness or any other reason] You can of course go ahead and post new thoughts.  I'll stay with the one I'm working on as I can.
[I wish I was smarter, and had more answers at the ready.  But...it is what it is.] And it's great 'exercise' to have to turn back to the Word to check our beliefs or see what we've missed.  I enjoy it very much.

scarz, why would the CIA classify a book?....why would a book on earth history be something that they would view as a danger to national security?....i am reading it right now, and i have already picked up something that nikola tesla stated in his theory of mass producing free energy, and a repeat of some of emanuel velikovsky's material works.....also, if you are familiar with one of my favorites, G.H. Pember, you can see some of  his works in this....this is not a long read, and when you have time, give it a whirl and see if you see what i see.

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP79B00752A000300070001-8.pdf

scarz, why would the CIA classify a book?

For anyone who may have missed it the first go around the topic below goes pretty deeply into this and much more. BTW, for anyone following this subject the entire book has been found and reprinted.

https://watchermeet-up.forumotion.com/t22153-the-next-end-of-the-world-earth-catastrophe-cycle-c-i-a-classified-heads-up-spring

Dove and Michael........I've been busy the last few days. I was also trying to think what subject to post about. There are so many areas that I've already touched upon but need to revisit some again soon.

michael371 wrote:

scarz, why would the CIA classify a book?....why would a book on earth history be something that they would view as a danger to national security?....i am reading it right now, and i have already picked up something that nikola tesla stated in his theory of mass producing free energy, and a repeat of some of emanuel velikovsky's material works.....also, if you are familiar with one of my favorites, G.H. Pember, you can see some of  his works in this....this is not a long read, and when you have time, give it a whirl and see if you see what i see.

 
I just got through reading it Michael......."Very interesting read."

Tell me what you saw!

I was looking at the whole lay out more than anything. I have never viewed this earth as only 6,000 years old. "In the beginning"...................Nobody has the answer.

This verse kept entering my mind as I read the material. 

Luke 21:25


And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

why now?....i said i was finished researching,hunting,going down rabbit holes and all that goes with it...done trying to explain to people that maybe their preacher is full of shit....i want to know why this book was classified and then scrubbed before being de-classed....the part about the earth being an electromagnetic conduit to produce zero point energy is not new, and nothing in there seemed to be a reason to classify UNLESS the original version gave some theory or speculation resulting into some great MYSTERY OF THE AGES, or revealed some secret technology or info......

what i saw in there was the female aspect that can't be denied....researcher knows something just ain't kosher with the accepted creation story....ADAM was in the image of God, with an X/Y chromosonal make up....God did not wave a magic wand and do all of this, because logic and deductive reasoning leads to only one possible conclusion that all life came form the DNA of God Almighty, mans spirit"the breath of life"....anything above that is above my intellectual paygrade.....

something else was the circle of time, the systematic nature of man to screw it up and God comes to tear it down and start over.....the occult symbol of the ouraboros, the serpent swallowing its tail....if you read genesis forward and revelation backward, on an event pattern, they read very similar....take in all of the great works of the people mentioned in the book by author,(velichovsky, G.H.Pember(although he was not mentioned)andre de luc, )chan thomas....on another forum, the discussion is about the "alien" connection with the megoliths, the pyramids and all of the stuff we are familiar with.....was there something in the original concerning a dimensional door?...the "nibiru/planet X" connection pops up real quick, and a big bunch of the disasters in revelation would coincide with a big object, having magnetic properties, coming close to the earth, so thisis no big deal...(sitchen is mostly a fraud and any discussion concerning annunaki arriving with "nibiru" should be taken with a box of salt)

all cultures have the creation story in some form with many variations from the bible narrative, just as they all have the genesis 6 story in various depictions, whether angels, or star people or sky gods, whatever, so this little book in this form is not worthy of any CIA attention in my eyes, but yet, they did classify and clean it....why?.....this is kinda' turned into a big deal on various other forums,too....you can listen, read and watch all of the material and videos you want, but there is no clean answer and apparently no way to confirm any theory as to why the book hit a nerve.....i want to look, but hell, i don't know where to start....i want to know why the CIA was interested in that book....

another thing i wonder about, is did the hebrews hijack the story?....i don't want to go there, but i wonder about this way more than i should

Well shucks ladies and gents - I dunno what to say or think. The video below is part #21 from the series. In the show notes is a link to Suspect Sky to get the entire Adam & Eave book in PDF form since as I understand things it went through two limited physical paper and ink printings. All copies seem to have gone WOOSH - VANISHED, and I suspect all new copies and used bookstore copies were Hoovered up fast - scoured clean by TPTB buying them all up to keep something quiet.

The same thing happened in 1977 with the book, "Alternative Three". I've seen exactly two copies of Alternative Three and I just happen to own one of those two copies. Stared looking for it in the early 1980's - found a copy in the used book section of a New Age type store for a buck. Back in the hippy days we called 'em "head shops".

Somebody or multiple somebodies don't want us to know certain things. That ain't speculation, it's FACT!

Show Notes wrote:

Part 21 | The rest of Chan Thomas' book. The hiding of plasma universe concepts and triggering of catastrophe. See the whole series here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHSoxioQtwZfY2ISsNBzJ-aOZ3APVS8br Read the full Chan Thomas book at https://www.SuspectSky.com and check out the SuspectSky YouTube Channel for discussion. This video contains numerous animations included via license from VideoBlocks. Copying this video without a license from them will result in a numerous violations of their copyright.

Video is 10 minutes long.

https://youtu.be/EB1nR8yOP8s

researcher wrote:

Somebody or multiple somebodies don't want us to know certain things. That ain't speculation, it's FACT!

I agree 100%.

We live and die on a very controlled earth. Anything that burst a bubble must be either given a rebirth as disinfo,whitewashed or trashed.

***************

The Adam and Eve Story - The Story of Cataclysms by Chan Thomas (Complete Book in PDF)


https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/b7imlc/the_adam_and_eve_story_the_story_of_cataclysms_by/


I share with you the book "The Adam and Eve Story - The Story of Cataclysms" by Chan Thomas, COMPLETE, Not the sanitized version of the CIA, but the version published in 1993 by the Bengal Tiger Press

I thought about using InDesign to rewrite, in the same style as the original, and make a true ebook available in a lighter file, but InDesign does not run on my computer

LINKS IN THE FINAL OF THIS POST

How did I get the book ?:

Searching the internet, I found a topic here on this same subreddit, from two months ago, where one of the comments asked to get in touch with a man named Michael Weaver, since I do not live in the United States, I preferred to send an email, Michael replied quickly, this is his message:

"Yes, I met Mr. Thomas in the 1960's when he was a guest on a talk radio show in Kansas City, Missouri. At that time, the book he had that he brought with him and that I got a copy of was like a thirty page pamphlet, not really 'a book'. I spent several hours conversing with Mr. Thomas and skimmed through his 'book' which I put away for safe keeping and then later lost in a flooded basement in the early '70's.
In the mid' 80's I began trying to find a copy, but to no avail. I had been impressed with the description of a cataclysm - what Mr. Thomas called 'a tumble' but I could not well remember the details and was hoping to find a copy so I could better relate to others what he was explaining. I contacted book stores near and far, but again, to no avail. Sometime around the turn of the century, after I got 'interneted', I began searching again, and low and behold, a bookstore in England had a copy of a 'book' by Chan Thomas entitled 'The Adam And Eve Story' I immediately ordered it, as was astounded when I received an actual paper back book of over two hundred pages, divided into two sections: The Adam and Eve Story, 127 pages and Aftermath of The Adam and Eve Story, 85 pages. This book is a First Edition that was published by Bengal Tiger Press in 1993 and is much more comprehensive than the short pamphlet I had possessed those many years earlier. I set about to cull from those over 200 pages the basic description of what a cataclysm is, and that small bit is what I posted on the blog that you must have read. I recently had another person contact me, wanting the same info as you and I scanned the most of it into PDF file and sent to him, as I will for you. Happy Reading... Oh, and I don't know Anything about it ever having been 'classified info' though if it was, I guess it doesn't surprise me... I'm not very good a computer stuff - I had difficulty in sending the last two sections - when you get it all put together, if there are pages missing or unreadable, let me know and I will try to make it right. Glad to see the interest growing - so Please Share and keep Chan's works alive. And keep me informed as you go along to what is happening with this amazing info."

What's the difference for the CIA version:

- Includes three additional chapters: Cataclysms Revisited, Conclusion, and The Author

- Cataclysms Revisited from Page 63 to page 118, just prior to Conclusion India, Greece, Egypt and the entire end section.

- The Book is divided into two sessions: The Adam and Eve Story with 127 pages and the Aftermath of Adam and Eve Story with 85 pages, totaling 212 pages

Chapters of The Adam and Eve Story

- The Next Cataclysm
- The Great Floods
- The Story
- The Events
- Genesis
- Cataclysms Revisited
- Conclusion
- The Author

Aftermath of Adam and Eve Story

- Our Precursor
- Evolution
- Jesus the History
- Angels and UFOs
- Jesus and Cataclysms
- Afterthoughts
- Postlude
- Aftereffects
- The Author
- Recommended Reading
- What's Happening to Our Magnetic Field

I Hope you Enjoy: https://mega.nz/#!rPgynILb!JCIp9nWWLMtQdfGct_WC--_nPiYCXL5iU_vcg-r_sE8
Mirror 1: https://dl.asis.io/4GHPcCC6.pdf
Mirror 2: https://archive.org/details/ChanThomasTheAdamAndEveStoryTheHistoryOfCataclysms1993FullUNCENSORED

Thanks much - mirror #2 worked and I downloaded the full book in PDF. Full link to the PDF version is below. It's also available in multiple formats, Kindle, text, epup & others at the mirror #2 link.

https://ia801506.us.archive.org/25/items/ChanThomasTheAdamAndEveStoryTheHistoryOfCataclysms1993FullUNCENSORED/%5BeBook%5D%20Chan%20Thomas%20-%20The%20Adam%20And%20Eve%20Story%20-%20The%20History%20Of%20Cataclysms%20%281993%20Full%20UNCENSORED%29.pdf

Took a few screen shots for y'all from the PDF. Top capture is from Adam & Eve - second capture is from Aftermath.

One of the things to remember during the One Thousand years of Satan being locked in the Abyss and Christ Kingdom is that Christ must still rule with a rod of iron. This clearly shows that even without the constant influence of Satan and his forces mankind will still have a sin nature. I'm only talking about those people who remain in a fleshly state not those of the first resurrection and bodily change. 


Revelation 2:26-27


And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.






Revelation 12:5


And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.




I believe all those of the first resurrection and bodily change will rule and reign with Christ in his Kingdom. I believe they will be much like what the Watchers or Sons of God were suppose to do but fell themselves. They will be kings and priest in the Kingdom. I believe they will also be teachers to help guide mankind in the knowledge and understanding of God.


Revelation 5:10


And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.




Isaiah 30:20-21


And [though] the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:


And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This [is] the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.




Isaiah 11:9


They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

You ever notice not many have much to offer about The False Prophet........"Except he is the Pope." You can read,watch,and listen to tons of material on The Antichrist but very little on The False Prophet. I've been studying this for a good while now and it takes a different turn in how most view it. The view most appear to take just doesn't fit for me. Many people who are Christian's just don't want to see an apostasy. They do almost any and everything they can to divert or avoid it.
 
I've brought up Wormwood before in this thread and need to revisit it because I believe it could tie into this lay out. Is it possible that The False Prophet is not a human being but a fallen Messenger (Fallen Angel,Fallen Son of God)?

wormwood......."bitterness,poisonous,venom"



Now I will lay out some of my thoughts and how it may connect to The False Prophet as Wormwood.


Revelation 8:10-11


And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;


And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.



"Lamp" is used in the sense as a symbol of guidance........" a light to guide their path."  The light of divinity, wisdom and intellect. Remember that Wormwood will be burning as it were a lamp.

It is not the real deal....."It is a False Lamp." 

The False Prophet will be a forerunner for the coming of the beast that rises out of the Abyss, as John The Baptist was a forerunner for Jesus Christ. Look  below at how John 5:35 fits into this as John was "A burning and shining light"..........John was the real deal.


John 5:35


He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.


This Messenger will be seen as a great light burning like a lamp. The Messenger (Wormwood) will cause a third of the rivers and fountains of waters (One third of Believers in Jesus Christ) to fall away from the truth. They will become bitter,poisoned by the deception that this Messenger brings. They will die a spiritual death because they were deceived into believing a lie and give up the life in Christ that brings about eternal life.

I will repeat this again....."This Messenger I believe is the one to pave the way for the soon arrival of the beast that rises from the Abyss." Be sure and remember that the Abyss isn't opened until sometime after the fifth trumpet.

This Messenger will appear full of light and be seen as like a lamb. Notice I only said "Like a Lamb",because he will be a fake christ like character. But out of his mouth will come a flood of deception that comes from his master The Adversary (Dragon). He is the one who causes those who are not of God to receive The Mark of The Beast.


This Messenger falls to earth from heaven and then rises to power out of the earth.

Revelation 13:11......."And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

Scarz - on that pope maybe being the false prophet subject . . .

Michael371 and I have discussed this at great length here on the forum more than once. I'll see if I can dig up some of our conversations for you when I get time. ( translation = when I get motivated  ) Long story short is if I can't find those posts, Mike and I pretty much agree that he's a VERY GOOD candidate. The Vatican et-al is gonna be a big player in the the last days, we believe. Also for your consideration - the Anti-Christ MIGHT NOT be fully human but some kind of part human/part something else hybrid possibly. Neither of us have carved that speculation into stone but we consider it a HIGH POSSIBILITY.

Researcher......I didn't explain good enough in my post. I'm not saying The False Prophet can't be "A Pope".......but A Pope may as you've stated be something much more than a "pure" flesh and blood human being. As Revelation reads this being can do some amazing things for a "pure" flesh and blood human.

Most seem to view Wormwood as a huge asteroid falling to earth. I do not believe this to be the case at all. That was what I meant by......."The view most appear to take just doesn't fit for me."

don't wqnt to type much, but scarz, the two horns represent two positions of power...who holds the position of both a head of state and a "spiritual leader(puke)?"....this can also apply to a raghead"prophet" or an iman and the head of a nation like iran,or maybe a caliphate, but i doubt this will be the case....i'm going all in on the reprobate pope(they all are) and the beast being the nimrod/tammuz/semiramis world system of paganism...."they will "BUILD" an image, like DNA image, and a new nimrod?....thats what i see, or close to it

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

The above verse of scripture certainly tells us that people can turn away from their faith in the true Jesus Christ. If they can leave the truth then there is no doubt that they were believers at one point in time and now as Paul mentions are no longer believers in the true Jesus Christ. Spirits and different doctrines have now seduced them to fall away from the truth and believe a lie.