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PostSubject: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 03, 2013 8:13 am

Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.  I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. —[url=http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Revelation 3.10-11]Revelation 3:10-11[/url][url=libronixdls:keylink|ref=[en]bible:Revelation3.10-11|res=LLS:KJV]Need help understanding this verse LibronixLink_light[/url]


"Because you have kept the word of My perseverance,..I will keep you from that hour...."

What is perseverance?

  • Perseverance is commitment, hard work, patience, endurance.
  • Perseverance is being able to bear difficulties calmly and without complaint.
  • Perseverance is trying again and again

I am having trouble understanding what this part of verse 3:10 means: Because you have kept the word of My perseverance (commitment, hard work, patience, endurance....) It just does not make sense to me; perhaps I have looked too hard and have overlooked a simple meaning, but for all my trying I just don't get it. Would someone enlighten me please?
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 03, 2013 8:44 am

I can say what it means to me. The AV translates it as 'patience', and G5281 as meaning
'endurance'.

"Endurance' immediately makes me think of Paul of 'running the race put before him'.

Hebrews 12: 1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

(Mat 13:18-23) If we would partake of the Prize set before us, we must remember the words of Jesus: "He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Mat 24:13; 10:22; Mark 13:13)
http://www.dianedew.com/runrace.htm

in 2Timothy 4, " I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:"
~~~~
If it's speaking 'works' to you, I'd say it's the 'charge of the Spirit' over our lives to execute
the Will of God for, in and through us, and not our own works as we might deem them to be.


           
            I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
            A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience              
                  
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 03, 2013 8:53 am

Thank you for your reply. The verse, to me, seems to be talking not about me but Him...


"Because you have kept the word of My perseverance,..I will keep you from that hour...."

I've always felt this verse has a deep meaning. How do I keep the word of His commitment, hard work, patience, endurance, Him being able to bear difficulties calmly and without complaint. and His trying again and again.

He promises to keep us from that hour because we kept the word of His commitment, hard work, etc.... And the perseverance definitely belongs to Him. It is His doing we are to keep the word of.

Because the verse was always a mystery to me I have no preconceived ideas about what it could mean; it was a curiosity from the first time i read it. I never got an idea of the meaning so I put it off to study later. Well, it's later. Now. Thanks for your patience with me.
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 03, 2013 9:21 am

G5281. hupomone hoop-om-on-ay' from 5278; cheerful (or hopeful) endurance, constancy:--enduring, patience, patient continuance (waiting).

Jesus is speaking to the Church of Philadelphia, which we take as an endtimes message as
well as a message to it's own time.

If you see it as Jesus saying, you have kept My Word, given Right Testimony of Me, and have not denied Me, That seems to fit in context.

So far, it all works for me! Look for the other times that G5281 and G5278 are used in
scripture to see if that refines the meaning and intent for you, too.



           
            I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
            A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience              
                  
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 03, 2013 9:33 am

Dove wrote:
G5281. hupomone hoop-om-on-ay' from 5278; cheerful (or hopeful) endurance, constancy:--enduring, patience, patient continuance (waiting).

Jesus is speaking to the Church of Philadelphia, which we take as an endtimes message as
well as a message to it's own time.

If you see it as Jesus saying, you have kept My Word, given Right Testimony of Me, and have not denied Me,   That seems to fit in context.

So far, it all works for me!  Look for the other times that G5281 and G5278 are used in
scripture to see if that refines the meaning and intent for you, too.  

Aha! You are right!! Thanks, I've been looking for something deep when the meaning was clearly there as it read. Thank you so much!!
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 03, 2013 9:42 am

Halleluyah!cheers  Our 'gathering together' produces Fruit. Very Happy 


           
            I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
            A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience              
                  
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 03, 2013 9:49 am

amen...
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 03, 2013 10:12 pm

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Last edited by jem on Sun May 25, 2014 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 04, 2013 6:48 am

Those are good observations, jem. I love your signature line; there IS a train coming and I can't wait until He pulls it into the station. We are definitely feeling the rumble of that train's approach and there is no turning back now. It's time to stand firmly, with courage watch and be ready ! Immanuel will, indeed soon be "God with us."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03YxgFrDreg

The day we see him face-to-face is one I long for and I hope he says, "good job!"
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 04, 2013 6:59 am

Saved's linked worship video,


And one of my banner songs also, Jem:


           
            I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
            A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience              
                  
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 04, 2013 7:40 am

Revelation 3:10
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
10 Because thou hast [praise GOD.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 3:10&version=GNV#fen-GNV-30744a]a[/url]]kept the word of my patience, therefore I will deliver thee from the hour of tentation, which will come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Footnotes:

  1. praise GOD.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 3:10&version=GNV#en-GNV-30744]Revelation 3:10[/url] Because thou hast been patient and constant, as I would my servants should be.
--------------

As Moses and His people were delivered from the tentation (trials) of Egypt.....??.....but were in Egypt while they occurred.??? Curious about the subject as well. I love The Lord but have -0- formal 'church' instruction and often draw conclusions that aren't terribly consistent with what is taught.
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 04, 2013 7:52 am

Quietobserver, Thank you for this version. It really intrigues me the phrasing of this passage, "...kept the word of my patience...."

Sweet Dove's "If you see it as Jesus saying, you have kept My Word, given Right Testimony of Me, and have not denied Me, That seems to fit in context" fits but I am still open to curiosity about this 1599 Geneva Bible's rendering using the word patience.

When we feel such about a verse perhaps it is the Father urging us to new understanding. Or it could be as you stated me just "drawing conclusions that aren't terribly consistent with what is taught" or there.

YHWH's best to you
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 04, 2013 8:55 am

Quoting Observer,
Quote :
As Moses and His people were delivered from the tentation (trials) of Egypt.....??.....but were in Egypt while they occurred.??? Curious about the subject as well. I love The Lord but have -0- formal 'church' instruction and often draw conclusions that aren't terribly consistent with what is taught.
Here we have a model from the OT.  That's ok...it IS a shadow and
a pattern of things to come...to be remembered always by the Hebrews so that they would
recognize their Messiah at His Appointed Time.  And yet...most did not, as  Temple Doctrine
stole the Truth from their heart's.
And, what was, will be....nothing new under the sun. But I am of the belief certain patterns
do not apply to the gentiles, or to the Followers of Jesus, but are to the 'unbelieving Jews'
only.  And if I had time for a thesis, I feel I can prove that with scripture.

But I'm firm in believing we must do all to reconcile our understanding of the NEW Testament,
the NEW Covenant, within itself FIRST, as it is in fact a NEW thing, a VERY NEW and very
glorious thing whereby WE, by the forgiveness of sin-washed white as snow,  become the temple of the Spirit of God on earth as He dwells within us!   WOW!

As on the Mount of Transfiguration, when Moses-the Law, and Elijah-the Prophet, stood with
Jesus at the center,  GOD spoke!  saying, THIS is My Son.  Listen to HIM!

So, Blessed Jesus said, "If it was not so, I would have told you."  Over and over through
parables, and more directly to the disciples, He revealed this NEW life of the Kingdom of God,
that the same Spirit of God who was with and in Jesus throughout His ministry will also be with
us. Paul, purely a man, is the walking, talking example of living in the service of the Spirit of God, made possible for us by Jesus ALONE.

So, when we have questions about a word or passage, our understanding must agree with
the nature and context of everything else He taught.  God is not the author of confusion.
So, we have the summation of the 10 Commandments as Love God above all and with all
you've got in you, and Love your neighbor as yourself.
We have the Beatitudes.    And many other direct words as to how we treat others.

The Church of Philadelphia has been called the church of Brotherly Love.  They were about
the Father's business, ie: charity towards all, loving their enemies, giving, feeding from what they had.
Doing that requires a massive shift caused by coming to know 'who we are in Christ' and believing in all that God has said He would do for those who Love Him AND seek to know AND DO His Will.
Because the 'flesh' doesn't think that way.

It's only by yielding to the leading of the Spirit and the Word within that we come to show forth the Heart of God as He really is in all His Goodness and Mercy towards humanity so that ALL might come to the Saving Knowledge of Jesus, the Christ.

So, this is what I believe Jesus was speaking about as He encouraged the Philadelphians to
persevere.  I believe He was saying 'continue' in your good works, your faithfulness to
all I've taught you, even though there are many hardships surrounding you.
And you will be rewarded.   Praise God!


           
            I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
            A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience              
                  
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 04, 2013 9:04 am

Beautifully said with a great deal of wisdom. Thank you, Dove.
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 04, 2013 10:06 am

I benefit so much from these discussions!  And I am looking too, as to why there is this
particular, and other differences between the Geneva and the KJV; looking for their sources.

I'm a rookie over this aspect, so anyone please share what you may know.

Jem. I think we are seeing the same.


           
            I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
            A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience              
                  
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 04, 2013 11:32 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 05, 2013 2:18 am

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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 06, 2013 9:24 am

Nicely done, Jem.  I wrote a response yesterday, but instead of staying in the lines, it became a giant spring board and went LARGE. And today I could easily 'go large' again. Laughing 

I like the specific.  But I haven't written much on the 'specific' here. There's
much I don't know from almost every passage you quoted.  But I have faith in the few things I do know, that they are sufficient. And if not, He will 'add to'
in due time.

A terrible thing happened on our way to heaven.  We, who thought to be 'good' found out we were wretched.  And a little of that chases me sometimes.  BUT, but, but..we are BORN AGAIN of the Spirit!  Yielded to Him in all things. [we pray]. Ok. Some things.  Ok,  "A few things", He said.

Our REAL striving isn't to perform works, but to submit ourselves to "God with us" right now: the indwelling Holy Spirit.Neither is my righteousness of myself, but of Christ. That's the backdrop of our understanding. The works that I do are not of me [or my own nature or reasoning or effort]. They are to be the work of God-Spirit.  More backdrop.

We can chase this around the mountain a million times if we don't understand what our real job is.  We've got one job!  Surrender to the Presence of God,
and He will both cause and execute ALL THE REST by His Spirit.

When He was in the world, Jesus was the "Body of Christ".  Now we are the 'Body of Christ'.
Jesus said, "I of Myself do nothing, but what I see the Father do."

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


We are to do the same, looking to and relying on Him, and not on ourselves.
~~~~

Yes, there are works charged to the believer in the Bible. We're also given the nature and character of a believer.  All these are of the Spirit, SO THAT God gets all the Glory!
If it isn't of HIM, then it counts for nothing,the Bible says.

And, we cannot do this work of being conformed, either.   The Spirit does the conforming of the inner 'man'.
So, IT'S ALL GOD, ALL THE TIME.  [lest any man boast.]
Both the desire to 'do good' and the Power to 'do good' come from God's
Spirit.

So, the WORKS of God are the FRUIT and GIFTS of God in action.

Our labor is to overcome the flesh [our self-will] and "Live, Move and have our Being in the Spirit".
That's another one we cannot do ourselves.   Instead, He's told us to REST, and He will do the thing~whatever He asks of us, He will perform it.
That's so amazing, it just knocks me down.  How could I go wrong if I'm submitted!
Halleluyah!  God cannot fail!  And it's ALL on Him.
He's taken full responsibility for our righteousness onto Himself!   [that deserved color.]

In ALL THINGS, seek first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness [which HE imputes to us by His Presence with us when we are 'born again' of the Spirit and the Kingdom].  
Rev. 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

THEN is everything needed added to us...by virtue of the indwelling Spirit of God.
What's our job?   'Listen to Him.'  "Why do you call me Lord, and not do the things I say?"

Back to 'works'. The Body of Christ.  The arms, legs, seeing eyes, hearing ears, speaking mouth of God on the earth by the Presence of His Spirit IN a cleansed vessel, a sanctified temple:  By the  Blood of Jesus.

How do we recognize such a person?  By the Fruit of the Spirit.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.  Gal.5:22-23

I looked up CHARITY yesterday.  Strong's G26.  It is "AGAPE", the very same word.

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.   1 Corinthians 13:1-3

Charity is the Spirit of God revealing Himself to the world through us.

Everything that is required of us is accomplished by 'God with us' as we yield.

I love you 





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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 07, 2013 6:55 am

Excellent observations! I find I am submissive when I accept everything that happens to me with thanksgiving and praise believing it from the hand of YHWH himself. It  frees Him to bless me and work out His will in my life without my whining or trying to do it myself. There is peace. Still a work in progress, I am.

Let me add this: In today's world being submissive to anything but ones own desires and drives is unthinkable. But submission to YHWH is peace. 

Praying for wisdom,
Saved
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 07, 2013 8:55 am

Quote :
Still a work in progress, I am.
Oh, me too, me too. And I get challenged beyond myself all the time, where my
only option is to humble myself, give up, give in and give it over.
And then WAIT. And wait WITH PATIENCE AND TRUST! Oh, hard, hard.

And my human nature makes me go over it all again and again. Did I
miss you, God, or have I done something wrong or not enough? And I check
through everything we've all written here, and more.

Yet, everytime I do that I come back to my clear and obvious insufficiency in His eyes,
and the All Sufficiency of Him; and of just how far He'll come for those who Love Him
and seek to know Him.
He didn't design us to make it on our own. If we could learn and then do it ourselves,
the Law would have worked. Instead, He designed us to need Him in everything,
so that we would continually seek Him out.

I've written this little story before. It's big to me; anytime I hear Him I'm thrilled.
I was listening to a minister once who asked 'what does it mean to endure to the end?'
Like a little kid, I'm thinking, "I know, I know." And I began to answer in my mind.
Till I became aware of another Voice speaking over mine....with a different answer!
And He said, 'Guard your heart. Let it not be hardened'.

So, when we were 'born again' of the Spirit, He replaced our 'stony' heart with a
flesh heart-a soft heart. And as long as we preserve that, we'll stay sensitive to His
Leading and know what to do and how to act, no matter what happens in these 'times'.

Against all my failures stands HIS MERCY. Against all my inabilities stands HIS GRACE.
You know that if your heart wasn't already right, filled with a desire to please Him,
you never would have noticed that message, that word. And HE looks on the heart. I love you 


           
            I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
            A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience              
                  
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PostSubject: Re: Need help understanding this verse   Need help understanding this verse I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 07, 2013 10:19 am

Very powerful truths there; choked me up reading them. This submission to all things Him leads to a rich, deep fellowship that brings not only soul satisfying "happiness" but the faith/strength/ability to survive the valleys of sorrow and pain this world brings.
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