LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW

Guest

LOOK AT PEOPLE OUTSIDE NEXT TO CHURCH ... THEY DO NOT LOOK UPSET!!!!! ... i'LL MARK IN RED TEXT!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5052163/Up-27-shot-Texas-church-gunman-opens-fire.html

'At least 27 people killed' at a Texas church and multiple people injured - including a two-year-old child - after a gunman in full combat dress opens fire during the service

At least 27 people were shot dead by unidentified gunman and at least 24 others are being treated for injuries
Police said the gunman walked into the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs in Texas and opened fire
One witness told authorities that among those who were shot in the attack was a two-year-old child
The church pastor Frank Pomeroy said his 'beautiful' daughter Annabelle, 14, was killed in the shooting
Another witness said the man, who isn't from the Sutherland Springs community, was dressed 'in full gear'
The University Health System said their trauma team is caring for nine patients 'four children and five adults'
Police confirmed that the gunman is dead, but it's unclear if police took him down or if he took his own life

By Valerie Edwards For Dailymail.com
PUBLISHED: 13:54 EST, 5 November 2017 | UPDATED: 17:32 EST, 5 November 2017

'I never thought it would happen here,' Matula said. 'This is something that happens in a big city. I would never have thought this would have taken place here. It's just too tight a community. It doesn't make sense.'

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW 460D863400000578-5052163-Photos_show_families_tearfully_praying_outside_their_community_b-a-111_1509916450932

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW 460D863400000578-5052163-Photos_show_families_tearfully_praying_outside_their_community_b-a-111_1509916450932

AND THIS... FIRE TRUCKS USUALLY DON'T PARK ON THE GRASS AREAS ... UNLESS A DRILL?

View image on Twitter
LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW DN43-niVAAA98HR

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW DN43-niVAAA98HR

Quote :: Max Massey @MaxMasseyTV

Photos show families tearfully praying outside their community building as they wait to see if their family and friends are safe

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5052163/Up-27-shot-Texas-church-gunman-opens-fire.html#ixzz4xbGA5QLw
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5052163/Up-27-shot-Texas-church-gunman-opens-fire.html#ixzz4xbFywnIw
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Guest

AND THIS TOO, MORE CHURCHES!!!! FRESNO CALIF.

Two shot, one fatally, outside church in Fresno ,on Sunday and police were involved in a standoff nearby with someone believed to be the gunman, the Fresno Bee reports.

Guest

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-05/saudi-helicopter-carrying-8-high-ranking-officials-crown-prince-mansour-crashed-all-

Saudi Helicopter Carrying 8 High-Ranking Officials & Prince Bin-Muqrin Crashed Near Yemen Border - All Dead

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW Picture-5

[size=10]by Tyler Durden
Nov 5, 2017 3:10 PM[/size]

The shocking latest twist in what has been a chaotic weekend in Saudi Arabia is news that a helicopter transporting 8 high-ranking Saudi officials (including prince Mansour bin-Muqrin) has crashed in the south of the Kingdom, near the border with Yemen.
LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW 20171105_saudi4_0

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW 20171105_saudi4_0

As PTI reports, a Saudi prince was killed today when a helicopter with several officials on board crashed near the kingdom's southern border with war-torn Yemen, state television said.

Quote :: The news channel Al-Ekhbariya announced the death of Prince Mansour bin Muqrin, the deputy governor of Asir province and son of a former crown prince.

It did not reveal the cause of the crash or the fate of the other officials aboard the aircraft.

[size]
The crash also comes after Saudi Arabia yesterday intercepted and destroyed a ballistic missile near Riyadh's international airport after it was fired from Yemen in an escalation of the kingdom's war against Iran-backed Huthi rebels.
LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW 20171105_saudi3_0

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW 20171105_saudi3_0

Sky News Arabia confirms an earlier report from Al-Watan news..."Newsletter: loss of a helicopter carrying a number of officials in the southern Asir, Saudi Arabia"

[/size]

Quote :

Guest

In Shocking Purge, Saudi King Arrests Billionaire Prince Bin Talal, Dozens Of Others In Cabinet Crackdown

In a shocking development, on Saturday prominent billionaire and member of the royal Saudi family, al-Waleed bin Talal, along with 10 other senior princes and over 30 minister has been arrested for corruption charges, in a dramatic crackdown by the Saudi royal family in what some have dubbed a countercoup attempt.

1,179,702
NOV 5, 2017 3:20 PM

Guest

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-05/new-foia-documents-reveal-fbi-scramble-preserve-records-uranium-one-scandal

New FOIA Documents Reveal FBI Scramble To Preserve Records In Uranium One Scandal

An internet researcher has uncovered what appears to be proof that the FBI was investigating the Uranium One deal back in 2015.

32,686
NOV 5, 2017 12:54 PM

Guest

PEEPS STOP JUMPING ON THEIR BAND WAGON, LOTS OF SNAKE OIL SALESMEN!!
http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2017/11/06/evidence-suggests-two-shooters-and-antifa-complicity-in-sutherland-massacre/

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW CSS-Offical-New-Logo2

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW Sutherland-massacre

Within a week, there wil be yet another photo at the top of an article on this webiste, depicting a scene in which dozens more are killed in another false flag attack. There are 3 soft targets that I have identified as likely to be hit and these are schools, malls and of course churches. Both Paul Preston and myself believe that schools are next. Any area in America which is declared a gun-free-zone is now a top tier target for psyops Antifa-related assassins and an organized terror attack similar to what we saw in Vegas.

The Common Sense Show would like to offer our prayers and heart-felt sympathies to the loved ones, in regard to the horrific attack upon Christians in Sutherland, Texas, on November 5, 2017. May the Lord bring comfort to the grieving loved ones.

[size=42]Attention Democrats: Please Spare Us Your Ridiculous Cries for Gun Confiscation[/size]

Here is comes America, the gun confiscators are showing up in mass and will use any excuse to sieze your guns. Here are two related headlines following the Texas shooting:

Quote :: MSNBC’s Jansing on Texas: This ‘Puzzles’ Foreign Countries Like Japan with ‘Restrictive Gun Laws’

— Rep. Gonzales: Texas Shooting ‘the 4th of 5th This Year that Could Have Been’ Prevented via Gun Control

The fact of the matter is that it took a citizen with a gun to put an end to this massacre. The mass shooting in Sutherland Springs, Texas, was only stopped after an armed Texan “engaged the killer and put an end to the rampage, the Texas Rangers reported”.
From Grabien.com

Quote :: “Freeman Martin, a major in the Texas Rangers and a spokesman for the Texas Department of Public Safety, says the suspect dropped his rifle and fled after being confronted by a local man who had grabbed his rifle.
Freeman provided a timeline of the tragedy in a press briefing Sunday evening.
“At approximately 11:20 this morning a suspect was seen at a Valero gas station in Sutherland Springs, Texas,” Martin said. “He was dressed in all black. That suspect crossed the street to the church, exited his vehicle and began firing at the church.”
“That suspect then moved to the right side of the church and then continued to fire,” he continued. “That suspect entered the church and continued to fire. As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect. The suspect dropped his rifle, which was a Ruger AR assault-type rifle and fled from the church.”
“Our local citizen pursued the suspect at that time,” Freeman went on. “A short time later as law enforcement responded that suspect right at the Wilson/Guadalupe County line crashed out and was found deceased in his vehicle. At this time we don’t know if it was a self-inflicted gunshot wound or if he was shot by the local resident. We know he’s deceased in the vehicle. “
The suspected killer is being reported as Devin Patrick Kelley. However, Freeman would reported, “The suspect has not been completely identified. We believe he’s a young white male, maybe in his early 20s. He was dressed in all black, tactical type gear and was wearing a ballistic vest.”
A local resident and neighbor of the good samaritan, Kevin Jordan, witnessed his as-yet unnamed neighbor put an end to the rampage, and possibly kill the shooter. Jordan is also a trained medical assistant and tended to the victims.”

In Israel, teachers carry guns in schools and on to the playground.

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW Armed-israeli-teachers

Instead we are facing the following:

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW Un-gun-control

Sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words. Ask the families of the one million genocidal victims how well gun control worked in Rwanda.

[size=42]Kelly Was An Antifa Member[/size]

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW Kelly-facebook

This was from Kelly’s Facebook page. It was mysteriously taken down within moments of the shooting. How could anyone have known to take this Facebook page that early into the event unless this person ws made known to Facebook ahead of time. This fact opens up a whole host of possibilities. I used to work with drug addicts trying to get probation from prison. Therefore, based my experience, I must state that this man in the picture is on drugs. Please note the “I am not there” look. I think it highly likely that both shooters, as evidenced by the comparative photos and surrounding circumstances, are Manchuraian Candidates (ie psyops assassins).

[size=42]How Many Shooters Were There?[/size]

I am not letting go of the following report which surfaced within moments after the mass murder event in Texas and this was the account that I published on The Common Sense Show.

Quote :: “The shooter’s name is being reported as Chris Ward. He has reportedly killed his entire family before launching the attack upon the church. I am not buying any more lone nut mass killers. We will find what we did with Paddock. Ward, or whomever, will have been on psychotropic meds and is the perfect Manchurian Candidate.”

The above news report is convincing and is presented with conviction. And now, this has all disappeared. The authorities have their man. And of course, as always, it is a lone nut assassin with a paper trail that implicates him as the sole assassin. It is normally the case that the assassin does not survive and that is very convenient because dead men tell no tales. However, the above news report is highly suggestive of at least one other shooter and we don’t have to go the 4th floor to find muzzle flashes like we did in the Vegas massacre.
There is more potential evidence that is surfacing that suggests the presence of another shooter. First, we have a communication that demonstrates forethought of action which removes any typical “random act of violence” as a possible explanation.

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW Antifa-to-attack-churches

Devin Kelley, who killed at least 27 people and injured many more, was one of two shooters in the church, according to eyewitnesses, who also report Kelley carried an Antifa flag and told the churchgoers “this is a communist revolution” before unloading on the congregation, reloading several times. Please go to the following link to see a tweet about the fact that there was 2 shooters and that an Antifa flag was unveiled in the church. This is an unconformed report. However, it is important to note that this is the second account in which some measure of evidence is presented to indicate that this is a second shooter. My expert source tells me that a second shooter is often employed to ensure the primary assassin does not survive and plans are usually made to evacuate the “handler”.

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW Sutherland-2-shooter-tweet

Is this real? The way that we will know what was real, such as the case of the news report naming a “Chris Ward” as the shooter, is if the information begins to disappear. What is ignored by the MSM is what should be paid attention to.
As the reader will not in the following section of this report, I believe we are looking at an assassin that was part of a psyops.

[size=42]Where Have We Seen the Clown Face Before?[/size]

Have you seen the clown face of the alleged assassin? If not, you should and then you should compare what you see to another mass murder that took place just over five years ago.
Paul Preston and I spoke late in the evening on November 5th. He directed me to the following Tweet and subsequent photo. Ask yourself a question America, where have we seen this before? While you are pondering the answer to this question, I will present this very telling Tweet. The answer to the question follows the Tweet.
Paul Preston‏ @a21rpaul

FollowFollow @a21rpaul

More
Texas shooter part of the Insane Clown Posse. Carried Antifa flag into church before shooting and killing 26 Christians as they worshipped.
LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW DN6X_fNUEAEOKUv

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW DN6X_fNUEAEOKUv

5:23 PM – 5 Nov 2017 from California, USA

1 Like

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW Batman-holmes-and-batman

Here is the answer to the above quetion. His name is James “Joker” Holmes in what was left of his clown face. He was the infamous Dark Knight Batman shooter in Aurora, Colorado. Compare the clown face of Holmes to Kelly. Please note the far away, “I am not here look”. The detached look is explained in detail in the following paragraphs as Holmes behavior was explained following his heinous act. Further, I am told that the clown look is part of the psyops approach to conditioning mass shooters into a state of automatic programming using classical conditioning (Pavlovian) techniqes. This is designed to elicit a conditioned response to a neutral stimulus designed to trigger the subject into carry our predetermined acts of violence.

On September 19, 2012, I published the following excerpts:

Quote :: …PhD candidate, James Holmes, 24, residing in Aurora, Colorado, acting with the precision and sophistication of a well-trained, killing-machine commando killed 12 people and wounded 59 as he opened fire at a Batman movie premiere The Dark Night Rising. Yet, as many mainstream media outlets, including the BBC, are reporting that James Holmes had no criminal arrest record and had absolutely no military training in his known background, yet, Holmes had every detail of “what the police call tactical equipment. He wore a ballistic helmet, a flak jacket and gas mask, but also the gloves and breeches you would expect from a Swat team….”
…The media has hung its hat on two analyses and subsequent explanations for Holmes’ actions: (1) Holmes is a mentally ill mass murderer who was suffering from paranoid schizophrenic delusions; and, (2) this horrible tragedy could have been averted if only effective gun control measures were in place. First of all, there doesn’t seem to be any history of serious mental illness with regard to what the media is stating that Holmes most likely suffers from. Secondly, the paranoid schizophrenic argument loses steam because the killer abruptly stopped killing when he got outside the theatre where the perpetrator calmly sat down and peacefully surrendered to authorities as if to say “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!” Are these actions consistent with a crazed mass murderer? I do not believe so. If the murderers intent was to kill as many innocent people as possible, then it appears likely that this rage would have continued outside the movie theater. Adrenaline alone, would’ve accounted for several more minutes added on to the killing rampage unless, of course, someone literally or metaphorically flipped a switch, MK Ultra style, which caused Holmes to shut down and passively surrender. Thirdly, the delusional beliefs and subsequent behavior of paranoid schizophrenics does not follow a calm, rational, predictable and methodical pattern of behavior which is exactly what we see in Holmes’ homicidal actions on that fateful night. The manifested behaviors of paranoid schizophrenics are normally preceded by disorganized and delusional thinking which causes the person to appear and act in an illogical and irrational manner. This is the opposite behavioral pattern of what we saw from James Holmes who carried out his act with the precision of a well-trained professional killer.

It is my considered opinion that the same psyops techniques that were used on Holmes were also utlized on Kelly. Police have identified Antifa member Devin Patrick Kelley as the Sutherland Springs Church Killer

[size=42]Conclusion[/size]

I agree with Paul Preston, schools better tighten their security protocols.
This is the beginning of the TET Terror Offensive I warned was coming as long as three years ago. There is no turning back, we are in a full-fledged war. So long as George Soros is allowed to walk freely among us, we will see more acts of violence such as this.

Please donate to offset the costs of The Common Sense Show

tragically, this was a live and very real event.....the war has turned on us , now.....lock em' and load em, and carry em'......

Luke 22:36..he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy a sword;.....and learn to use that "sword" ( aka .357 mag in my case)

michael371 wrote:: tragically, this was a live and very real event.....the war has turned on us , now.....lock em' and load em, and carry em'......

Luke 22:36..he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy a sword;.....and learn to use that "sword" ( aka .357 mag in my case)

Good point, Mike.

You know, buddy, a lot of Christians struggle with whether or not we can have and use weapons for protection, though? The verse you quoted is a good example of Christ not being against us protecting ourselves with weapons. When I was preaching I had a lesson I lied to preach called "The Servant's Ear."

The lesson, which was not totally my own I must say, was really about one of the 3 "contexts" we use in studying the Scriptures. It was about studying a story in the context of all the passages in which it is found. It showed how studying about when they came to take Jesus, one of His servants cut off the High Priest's servant's ear.

According to where you first read this story, say if you start in Mark 14, basically all you learn is that a disciple cut off a servant's ear. No names or anything, but by going to Mt., Lk, and Jn., you learn a little more in each book until you get the full story.

One thing you will never see in any of the passages is Jesus chiding Peter for owning a sword or using for protection!! The only Jesus chides Peter for is getting in the way of His time to "drink of the cup which My Father has given Me?" (Jn. 18:11) If it were wrong for us to have weapons and protect ourselves, this would have been a perfect time for Christ to chide Peter for even having a sword.

again josey, you got it right....your business is between you and the Lord, but man you need to get back in the pulpit....explain to the people what happened to you and why, and go from there....you are so much more qualified than these asshats that "mama called and daddy sent" seminary leftists who don't know if they are scratching their watch or winding their ass....i'll mind my own business now

Well, I beg to differ. I don't think we have authority to take another's life, PERIOD.

If you really think for a minute on the Reality of the Indwelling Spirit, and IF we hear His Voice,
and If we are led by Him, He WILL NOT walk us into any situation where our only choice is to
sin.

When Jesus chastised Peter, the same is true for us, as we walk with Him. And when Jesus answered Pilate, He said,
, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. John 19:11

And fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matt. 10:28

If a single disciple had ever fought for his life, despite the great life threatening situations they faced, I might be convinced otherwise.

Instead I hear "lead me not unto temptation, but deliver me from evil."

One is the 'ways of man'. One is the Way of God.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

believe what you want dove, but you are wrong....Christ chastised peter because peter was interferring in the predestined and eventual culmination of the cross....we have the right to kill in self defense, but not murder....there is a difference

Show me please in the New Testament where a disciple, a Christ Follower, killed another for any reason, including self-defense.

"A Kingdom divided against itself cannot stand."

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

there is no difference in the old and new testament doctrines,dove....the old testament is the new testament, concealed....the new testament is the old testament ,revealed....thats bible 101....why did peter have a sword?....to cut watermelons?.....you are to "turn the other cheek to your BROTHER (or sister) in Christ.....If you are threatened by a reprobate, you can try to reason with him....ima' pop a cap in his ass...dove, do you actually believe that the new testament covered everything in the daily lives of everybody, and that is all that they said?...lol.....why did Christ tell them to buy themselves a sword?.....lol

Dove wrote:: Well, I beg to differ. I don't think we have authority to take another's life, PERIOD.

First of all, I didn't say anything about taking someone else's life. You can use a weapon for self-defense without killing the other person.

However, again, if it were wrong to have a weapon, why did Jesus not tell Peter it was wrong for him to have one? Why did he tell those to sell their cloak and buy a sword? What do you think those swords were going to be used for if not for self-defense?

Thank you as always, Josephus, for your respectful demeanor. I wanted to read the passage before giving you the 'standard answer', and perhaps have seem something more I didn't recognize before.

Here is the passage: (it is not when he sent them into the countryside, which was without sword, but on the night of His betrayal).
Luke 22
³⁵And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. ³⁶Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. ³⁷For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. ³⁸And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

I just want to read a little more before responding, but off the top of my head, the Spirit of God was withdrawing from Jesus so that the sins of the world could be placed upon Him.

(You're with me on why that was so?) (And we know, as confirmation of that fact, that at the culmination Jesus cried, Father, why have You forsaken Me?)

From that night until the Spirit came on and in the disciples in the Upper Room, they had no Divine protection over themselves. And they sure weren't taking the Word out into the world.

I just wondered too if what Peter did to the guard was alluded to anywhere in the O.T. Messiah prophecies, perhaps in Isaiah. So I want to look for that.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Dove, from my understanding, yes they had been without the Holy Spirit, but it was no different than no other previous time. Reason being, they were still in the Old Testament up until Christ was crucified. Therefore, Jesus and His disciples weren't missing anything that wasn't already there. The Spirit came down and Jesus baptized the apostles with Him in the Upper Room as you stated.

Remember though, Jesus told them, "Lo, I am with you alway", so it isn't like they were unprotected, it was just different after the Holy Spirit came.

About Jesus' cry of "why have You forsaken Me?" Remember that God abhors sin and cannot look upon it. Upon the cross, Christ took our sins upon Himself to be our sacrifice. When Jesus was covered in our sins, God would not have been able to look upon Him. Therefore, the Father would have turned away from the Son for the first time prompting Jesus' questioning.

As far as whether or not what Peter did was prophesied, I don't remember ever reading it or hearing it, but that obviously doesn't mean it wasn't. If I run across it I will post it.

the entire old testament is about Christ

Guest

and we are judged differently by peers in cases of defending family and life in the dark and differently by day.

remember too they were up against an entire legon of Roman military which would be what? 2000 soldiers?

I still say it is a False Flag as do others and one should not act against until it is in the case of personal defense.

Guest

And then what justifies a war and sending our young off to fight... is it not the reason that Congress is the only ones that can declare war... and that the country must be struck in order to do so in defense... why are the churches in this country not giving them hell for not adhiring to our God base laws?
Have all the pastors been to the wrong schools and brain washed into a type of teaching to subdue the church and its people???

Term limits would prevent politicians from retaining power and corrupting the gov. that is why they hold tight to this!

Guest

And how about being a good Samaritan... are we not charged guilty for not rendering help when someone needs it?
Would one stand and watch another beaten to death? Then you are as guilty as the one doing it, right?

Is this not said in your Bible... it is in mine!

I'm going to stand against Satan himself if necessary!

There is no going back, I have bad mouthed him many times and I have had strange signs and things happen which I believe was his influence, but I won't change!!

And remember that the Roman short sword was THE weapon of mass destruction at the top of the food chain in that day. It was illegal for the civilian to have one. You can verify that yourself. Roman laws of that day were written down and we know of them this very day. Speaking comparatively it would be the equivalent of you or me today possessing a rocket propelled grenade launcher or a Bradley M1-A1 tank. Let that sink in for a moment.

Hmmmm, possess a forbidden sword against Roman law . . . . says a lot to me about some "man made" laws we might have to ignore in some cases.

One has every right to defend ones self by any means. That doesn't give anyone the right to go looking for trouble. Having said that we don't go looking for trouble - BUT - rest assured that trouble will be looking for you!

Better to have a sword and not need it - than - to need a sword and not have it!

!! FOXTROT JULIET BRAVO !!

researcher wrote:: One has every right to defend ones self by any means. That doesn't give anyone the right to go looking for trouble. Having said that we don't go looking for trouble - BUT - rest assured that trouble will be looking for you!

I think this is the main point here. Romans 12:18 tells us that as long as it is possible, as long as it depends on us, we are to live peacefully with all men (paraphrasing). I will never go out looking for trouble and will always try to find a peaceful solution, but some people will not allow you to find that peaceful solution. Even then, I will do the least harm possible to stop the situation, but be ready to do whatever is necessary to defend myself and family.

Only exception I make to the rule is if I am be persecuted for the cause of Christ.

This realm is full of violence, full of sin, of death and destruction. And everything about every day experience promotes that. It must be close to true that every generation has it's war or lives under the fear of rumors of wars. The msm guarantees we live in a fear based environment, and when we went to the Bible to escape that, we found TEOTWAWKI people are experts in promoting fear.

Yet Jesus repeatedly said, 'Fear not'; 365 times actually, according to google.
That's a bona fide dilemma to the natural mind. Is Jesus cra-cra? Does He just not know how it is in 'real life'?

How do we understand this, and how can we possibly live this? We find out it takes a 'new mind' and a 'new heart': the Mind of Christ. And this happens by being 'born again' of the Spirit. It is HIM who is well-able to do more than we can even ask or think.

So people believe that in their confession of faith, they are born again. THEN they
go about trying to reconcile the Kingdom of God with life on earth under satan.
And guess what? That doesn't work. It's not meant to work. God said, it won't work...don't even try. The Kingdom IS 'Another Way', a More Excellent Way.

What He did say was, Come out of her my people, and don't participate in her sins.
So if I come OUT of an old place, am I not now in some NEW place?
We must not use the 'ways of this world' to try to 'bring down' the Kingdom.

We have testimony that on ONE occasion, Jesus told the boys to get swords. Two swords for the eleven plus Jesus, was sufficient.
Why? After everything He said while ministering, teaching about the True Nature and Heart of God, about the Kingdom and about what it means to follow Him, did He do this contrary thing. I do believe it was a night like none other; that the Hand and the Spirit of God was withdrawing.
And I'll look deeper in scripture to see if there's an answer.

But does this one occurrence mean that we throw out the preponderance of everything else He said to the contrary? Absolutely not. That's not good exegesis.
I'm just not sure how to prove this without walls of text.

From the day I signed up on the forum to the day I leave I will speak the Reality of the Kingdom, and of a life surrendered to God, and how He does honor and meet our faith and total Trust in Him. And yes, I have to work at this all the time.
But my work, my labor, my job is to Seek Him First, surrender my Will to His Will, be filled with the Spirit, and Let Him direct all the issues of my life, regardless of the fiery darts.
When I am tempted to take the responsibility of my or anyone else's life into my own hands instead of surrendered into God's Hand....well....at the least that seems like a really lousy time to decide that I should be in charge. And absolutely the Bible teaches that. Absolutely.

I'm certainly not trying to convict or condemn anyone. Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins. And I need that fully as much as anyone, every day including today.

But speaking of walls of text, we have a continual wall of woes here, and lots of fearful thoughts that they're ALL going to land on our doorstep one of these days.
But I have lived out these life or death struggles repeatedly-REPEATEDLY!, in my life
and from experience I can say with 100% conviction that the ONLY way to be prepared is to seek and find an intimate fellowship with God by His Holy Spirit whom He sent to earth for us so that we may have LIFE and LIFE MORE ABUNDANT.
Seek Him and ASK of Him until the Peace that passes All Understanding dwells in you.
THEN you will have done the one Needful Thing, and are armed and ready, for now and forever more. Amen.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Thought I'd try reading the verses in question, and the answer is right there in the same sentence.

I think this was Jesus' last teaching to His Disciples before He was taken from them.
We know they still didn't grasp what was coming or why, and He needed to reinforce to them how they were to respond, or not respond when it all came down. Perhaps they would have considered punishing or killing Judas, or attempted to free Jesus; so many possible "human' responses.
But I find His Words clear and understandable, and the lesson self-explanatory and in concert with
all else He taught.

^{Matt 26:51}And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest’s, and smote off his ear. ⁵²Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. ⁵³Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? ⁵⁴But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

~~~~
RIGHTEOUSNESS is in the Holy Ghost. You understand that if we Abide in Him and His Words abide in us that where we are, so is HE.
Could we look for any more confidence? Can we truly survive with any less?

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Dove wrote:: We have testimony that on ONE occasion, Jesus told the boys to get swords. Two swords for the eleven plus Jesus, was sufficient.
Why? After everything He said while ministering, teaching about the True Nature and Heart of God, about the Kingdom and about what it means to follow Him, did He do this contrary thing. I do believe it was a night like none other; that the Hand and the Spirit of God was withdrawing.
And I'll look deeper in scripture to see if there's an answer.

A couple of things, Dove.

First, please don't get the impression that I live fearful of having to protect myself one day even though the media does seem to try to make it sound like violence is around almost every corner. I mean I have weapons at home, but I don't carry anything because, especially around here, it is a very very slim chance I would ever need one. Plus, I am trained in Wing Chun. Two reasons; Health benefits being one, and self-defense on the however small chance I may ever need it. Plus the damage done with Wing Chun is much more controllable than damage done with a weapon.

Second, in the example you are talking about the two swords were not for the eleven. Remeber Christ told "him who has no sword" sell his garment and buy one. So, we don't know for sure how many needed swords, but there is no reason to think the two swords were to protect all 11, just those that didn't already have them.

Also, I don't see why the fact they were told to buy swords only once is important? It was still a command to those from Christ. And, remember the example I gave from Peter cutting off the servant's ear. That was a perfect time for Jesus to tell Peter to get rid of his sword, yet the only thing He chided Peter over was Peter's interference in the people coming to take Christ so that his mission could be completed.

I'm in blue.

In response to the 'first'. I'm not singling out anyone.

There is, therefore, no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

I'm trying to do 2 things: clarify what Jesus taught,

and 2ndly to encourage those that choose to walk by faith Alone, that they need not begin to doubt or feel weak or fearful on account of the current events of the world.
~~~~~
Second, in the example you are talking about the two swords were not for the eleven.
Who then was He talking to? Judas had left. And the comment to buy a sword directly followed the reference to when He sent the disciples out into the countryside.

Remeber Christ told "him who has no sword" sell his garment and buy one. So, we don't know for sure how many needed swords, but there is no reason to think the two swords were to protect all 11, just those that didn't already have them.

Ok, that's a possibility.
The 'standard answer' Bible teachers give is that IF the disciples did carry weapons-swords, it was for defense against the wild beasts of the countryside where they often walked from city to city.

Beginning in Luke 26:
³⁵And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

³⁶Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. ³⁷For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. ³⁸And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

So Jesus was aware that two were lacking swords? I should deduce someone brought extra swords? Or was Jesus accustomed to wearing a sword? I'm lost on this train of thought.

~~~~~~

Also, I don't see why the fact they were told to buy swords only once is important? It was still a command to those from Christ.

Because pulling one statement from scripture and assigning it meaning contrary to the rest of scripture is a no-no. It's not an error of scripture. It's an error in our understanding of scripture.

And, remember the example I gave from Peter cutting off the servant's ear. That was a perfect time for Jesus to tell Peter to get rid of his sword, yet the only thing He chided Peter over was Peter's interference in the people coming to take Christ so that his mission could be completed.

Chided Peter?
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

That to me is a very powerful statement of 'how it is'. And is in agreement (I believe)
with the rest of His teachings.

Verse here for reference.
^{[url=http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Matt 26.51]Matt 26:51[/url][url=libronixdls|ref=[en]bible:Matt26.51|res=LLS:KJV][/url]}And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest’s, and smote off his ear. ⁵²Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. ⁵³Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I do know and make allowances for the fact that we sit under different teachers. And the first thing I read this morning on this subject was that Jr. from Liberty had told his congregation to secure arms.

Actually, one I listen to may have said something similar about defending oneself.
But I want to be clear for myself as to what Jesus said. But if you don't think that 'live by the sword-must die by the sword' is significant, we may not come to any agreement. Still, that shouldn't stop us from looking and discussing.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

He said, "LIVE BY THE SWORD!" In other words in today's vernacular that would be someone who has an arsenal of weapons and intends to shuffle off this mortal coil using them. That man is trusting his weapons over God to settle any wrong. He's living by the sword and looking for action, and just asking for trouble, so yes, that man will most likely die by the sword.

One the other hand , if I remember correctly, you are COMMANDED / EXPECTED to defend and protect yourself and your families and your neighbors. Now I recall that someplace in scripture and dang it all I can't remember where. Something along the lines of not defending your family makes you worse than an infidel. (paraphrased) You peeps who can remember the exact book, chapter, and verse help me here please. I've never been good at the exact chapter / verse thing but I do get the gist of what they say even if I can't remember who said it where.

!! FOXTROT JULIET BRAVO !!

Dove wrote:: Second, in the example you are talking about the two swords were not for the eleven.
Who then was He talking to? Judas had left. And the comment to buy a sword directly followed the reference to when He sent the disciples out into the countryside.

What I mean to this is He was not telling them all to go buy swords, just those that did not have them. Obviously those that had them wouldn't need, and their could have been some that didn't want them (although that part we can't know). So this part was focused on those without. As Christ said, "let those without a sword."

Remeber Christ told "him who has no sword" sell his garment and buy one. So, we don't know for sure how many needed swords, but there is no reason to think the two swords were to protect all 11, just those that didn't already have them.

Ok, that's a possibility.
The 'standard answer' Bible teachers give is that IF the disciples did carry weapons-swords, it was for defense against the wild beasts of the countryside where they often walked from city to city.

I am sure that wild animals is possibly a reason for the swords. However, I have never heard that in all my years, so I am not sure I could agree with that as the "standard answer."

Beginning in Luke 26:
³⁵And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

³⁶Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. ³⁷For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. ³⁸And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

So Jesus was aware that two were lacking swords? I should deduce someone brought extra swords? Or was Jesus accustomed to wearing a sword? I'm lost on this train of thought.

We don't know for sure how many were without sword as that is never pointed out. However, I am sure we can assume at least two didn't have one. I don't know why anyone would have bought any extra swords...I don't know of anything I said that would imply that, but am sorry if I did. I am sure Jesus didn't carry a sword as he would have had no need for one.
~~~~~~

Also, I don't see why the fact they were told to buy swords only once is important? It was still a command to those from Christ.

Because pulling one statement from scripture and assigning it meaning contrary to the rest of scripture is a no-no. It's not an error of scripture. It's an error in our understanding of scripture.

I agree with what you're saying. However, in this situation it is a straightforward direction given out of Jesus' mouth, and it would not be contrary to any of His teachings. It is not like He told them to "buy a sword and be ready to fight", or anything along that line. He didn't tell them to be in an offensive mindset, and ready to strike down people.

And, remember the example I gave from Peter cutting off the servant's ear. That was a perfect time for Jesus to tell Peter to get rid of his sword, yet the only thing He chided Peter over was Peter's interference in the people coming to take Christ so that his mission could be completed.

Chided Peter?
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

That to me is a very powerful statement of 'how it is'. And is in agreement (I believe)
with the rest of His teachings.

Notice here, again, that Jesus told Peter to "put up" ("sheath" as stated in John) his sword, not to get rid of it.
I think you're main point though was the statement "for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." Correct? And I completely agree that this is also completely in agreement with the rest of Jesus' teachings. I think there is a difference here, however, in the understanding of how we are talking about the use of the sword.
I am talking about only using a weapon as a last resort, after all else has failed. That is not "living by the sword." Peter, here, was an example of living by the sword as that was his first action. Peter did not use his in self defense, he used his before anything happened and he struck first. That being said, in this situation Jesus would have wanted nothing done because it was His time to be taken. This is one of the examples of why I said earlier that my exception is during times of persecution for being a Christian. (Ro. 8:17)

Verse here for reference.
^{[url=http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Matt 26.51]Matt 26:51[/url][url=libronixdls|ref=[en]bible:Matt26.51|res=LLS:KJV][/url]}And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest’s, and smote off his ear. ⁵²Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. ⁵³Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I do know and make allowances for the fact that we sit under different teachers. And the first thing I read this morning on this subject was that Jr. from Liberty had told his congregation to secure arms.

Actually, one I listen to may have said something similar about defending oneself.
But I want to be clear for myself as to what Jesus said. But if you don't think that 'live by the sword-must die by the sword' is significant, we may not come to any agreement. Still, that shouldn't stop us from looking and discussing.

researcher wrote:: He said, "LIVE BY THE SWORD!" In other words in today's vernacular that would be someone who has an arsenal of weapons and intends to shuffle off this mortal coil using them. That man is trusting his weapons over God to settle any wrong. He's living by the sword and looking for action, and just asking for trouble, so yes, that man will most likely die by the sword.

One the other hand , if I remember correctly, you are COMMANDED / EXPECTED to defend and protect yourself and your families and your neighbors. Now I recall that someplace in scripture and dang it all I can't remember where. Something along the lines of not defending your family makes you worse than an infidel. (paraphrased) You peeps who can remember the exact book, chapter, and verse help me here please. I've never been good at the exact chapter / verse thing but I do get the gist of what they say even if I can't remember who said it where.

Are you thinking of 1 Tim 5:8?
"But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

If so, this verse, I believe, is talking about making provisions (food, clothing, shelter, etc), not self-defense.

That's the verse and I do see defense in that. You are expected to provide all those things and that includes safety. If you were to walk in on someone attacking your family and you had a chance to stop the attack would you pick up an axe, ball bat, or whatever and part someones head down the middle? I can accept that act as part of that verse.

!! FOXTROT JULIET BRAVO !!

Thanks Josephus. I see now what you're saying. I suppose next we'll end up at the 'murder or kill'
translation, but will it change anyone's mind even if we should go through it? It's been done so many times before. It appears we're all solidly committed in our beliefs.

For me? I don't expect to be put in that position where I would feel the need to defend my life or that of my family against any other person. I've watched God defeat the enemy on our behalf before. And that's not going to change, UNLESS AND UNTIL it's our time as He has determined.
It's almost like we forget we are all appointed once to die. Wink

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

researcher wrote:: That's the verse and I do see defense in that. You are expected to provide all those things and that includes safety. If you were to walk in on someone attacking your family and you had a chance to stop the attack would you pick up an axe, ball bat, or whatever and part someones head down the middle? I can accept that act as part of that verse.

I agree you protect your family. I was just saying that when you read that verse in context I do not believe that is the "provide for" it is talking about, in this instance. I completely agree with you, though, that if you were to walk in on someone attacking your family you would be obligated to do everything in your will to stop them!

Dove wrote:: Thanks Josephus. I see now what you're saying. I suppose next we'll end up at the 'murder or kill'
translation,

You're welcome, and thank you too! I'm always ready to discuss Scripture, and murder/kill is something that I would discuss if you wanted. In fact, I think self-defense can quickly become murder if you don't stop after you have ended the attack. Self defense is supposed to be about protection, but some take it past protection and into the realm of revenge which can easily lead to murder.

This always said enough for me........

Luke 22:35-36
35 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?”
“Nothing,” they answered.
36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

I understand better now how these passages speak to you all. Yet, it remains different from how they speak to me.
As was mentioned, the Bible doesn't tell every thing, yet something as big as inflicting harm to another,(or possible death, considering nothing short of a gun beats a gun in a fight),
and determining when that is justified and when it is not,(in God's sight) seems significant enough that it should be there.

And I wonder if the disciples knew this about self-defense. We are told about their experiences of hiding, fleeing from pursuit, being stoned, beaten, taken captive, imprisoned, boiled in oil, and killed. You'd think there would be one mention of them defending themselves, or even teaching that to new believers as they established the churches.
Is it there and I've missed it? That certainly could be the case.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Last edited by rawblues on Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:06 am; edited 1 time in total

The way I always viewed it, it was more in a self-defense situation. In the Bible there's numerous places with references about the dangers of "highway robbers" to travelers. People back then would walk to and from places on foot between towns on trails and roads where robbers were known to lie in wait. If we were in their same situation today in our travels, most of us would probably carry something for self-defense for ourselves and our families. If the robbers back in the Bible times knew that all travelers were unarmed, (without a sword) it would have been complete chaos and violent crime would have prevailed unchecked.

The disciples were susceptible to these same dangers and needed "a sword" visibly showing on their hip for protection so that they could complete their missions. Back then, just the visual sight of someone traveling wearing and having a sword in it's scabbard was enough to give a robber "second thoughts" about messing with them. I truly think that was one of the main reasons it was suggested to carry a sword back in Bible days....as a means of prevention and dissuading robbers.

Dove wrote:: And I wonder if the disciples knew this about self-defense. We are told about their experiences of hiding, fleeing from pursuit, being stoned, beaten, taken captive, imprisoned, boiled in oil, and killed. You'd think there would be one mention of them defending themselves, or even teaching that to new believers as they established the churches.
Is it there and I've missed it? That certainly could be the case.

Dove, that is where I was talking about my exception to self defense. We see example after example of saints not defending themselves in persecution situations. We are also told how we'll be blessed if we suffer for Christ. I think all of the things you point out here were done as a form of persecution, so it was right for the saints not to defend against it.

However, if a robber sees an opportunity to steal money and his actions are not done in the manner of persecuting a Christian, just stealing your money, that is a situation where I am fine with self defense.

I guess you could put it this way; For persecution purposes, No. For secular reasons, Yes.

Guest

Just talked to the tree cutter yesterday.
Early one morning..
While he was out working a larger site and camped, two coyotes lurred his dog away from camp into a field where it was whimpering loudly as they circled him, and two others were
working his tent and family... lucky he had a .22 to scare them off!

Dove do you fear good people with guns or bad people with guns?

This is why we have Open Carry which disables the good by not allowinig a loaded weapon we are still able to carry shells on the opposite side ready.

This is why we have Concealed Carry fully loaded and hidden because you took a class.

How does Open Carry sound when you are out in the forest with Bears, Mountain Lions and Bobcats?
How long does it take you to load your weapon of choice as the Mountain Lion is Flying in the air toward your neck?

How about that guy robbing the convenience store while you are in it carrying unloaded... how about one up on the bad guy fully loaded and concealed?

I break the Open Carry law when I am in the forest not hunting, the second I leave my ATV my side kick is loaded because I have seen 8ft Bears and full grown Mountain Lions on average of 2 per year. But if you are hunting you can have one in your rifle does that even make sense? No.
Those Lions are very quiet!!!

Remember some of the pictures I posted here with a Hunter taking picture of Hunter and when developed they see the BEAR?
I do that so that you here on this forum have a mental note that the forest for bug out is not a place to go unarmed, and you better know how to use your ears!

I didn't buy my tools to kill people! Protection from the beasts, and hunting. I own two bows too, one compound and one recurve.
I'm a nice guy... but don't break into my home at night or threaten my family... I sometimes do go into the forest without any weapon or hunting knife... my new rule if minimum is hunting knife...8"-10 cause I always encounter something... and a 4wd ATV does not turn around on a narrow trail without a couple times up and down the bank. Last time was riding double with wife, no weapons ... BIGGEST BEAR I HAVE SEEN! That got a little scary a spit second the thought of nothing ran zig zaggin in my brain while figuring out the best move ATV goes 26 Bear goes faster, ATV stopped and pointed wrong way...uh ... rev engine to see what his thought is.... and yeah you are 25 miles from nearest house!

If they humans act like dangerous animals then I may have to!.

Last outing got my first Flat on the new ATV 20mi out, usually out at least 40 but on the way back... that was slow cause they can't steer good with a wide flat on off camber rocky, gravel or dirt trails... OOPS NO TOOLS... on a Sunday, NO SOULS IN THIS AREA BUT ME!
New rule.... check old rule... don't do that again. Lucky I had already eaten my ham sandwich!

Guest

And folks anyone here can own a fully operational tank or other... you just need to apply for your class 3 permit.
You might need to be pretty stable with no rants posted in the net.

I had 2 friends that did.. one was a collector Jaques Littlefield who is dead but you could find his museum collection/foundation south of San Francisco and another I will not mention by name here.
Jaque inherited his fathers wealth from Utah Mining and Equipment which mined Uranium for the original BOMBS.
Was a very nice million/billionair. Lots of cool stuff!!

Spring said :Dove do you fear good people with guns or bad people with guns?

You want my opinion on guns?
I wrote one of the recommendation letters for my ex-husband's concealed carry. I've shot pistols and rifles, I support the military and militias as a 'fact of need' in this world. And "don't bring a knife to a gun fight" is just plain good sense.

Spring, you think I've said something I didn't say. What I did say was for those who don't feel the need to buy a weapon for protection, AND are relying on God instead, don't let the accelerated activities of the world trouble your heart (basically), or cause you to fear or doubt.

Then I asked what was it that Jesus taught about arming ourselves, and people gave their understanding of what scripture says. I understand now how it reads to them, but my heart still tells me that's not for me or my house. And we at my house all agree.

What nobody's figured out yet is that I'm not by any means 'unarmed'. For over 9 years here I've talked about 'Another Way', which is as equally available to each of you as it is to me. When I asked Him what His Word was for His Power, He told me 'It's the Anointing".
I'm not going to talk about it again. Suffice it to say He is More Sure than any earthly weapon.

God is not a man that He should lie. The Promises He made to us are Truth. Can I not pass on that assurance to you all whom I care for and have kept company with all this time?
The world is quite capable of bringing us in one way or another to the end of our self, but if that happens we can be glad! Because He is there.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Guest

http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2017/11/09/stunning-insider-interview-with-a-sutherland-springs-citizen-the-truth-is-not-being-told/

I can recall vividly watching the tape of Walter Cronkite as he announced the death of JFK. Cronkite was fighting with everything he had to maintain himself during the report and he did so with great poise although he was visibily shaken. I had my Walter Cronkite moment, and I failed, as I interviewed a citizen from Sutherland Springs, Texas. I know many people in the media relish the thought being the first to break a story and they can do so, under great pressure with professionalism. I am not made that way. Walter Cronkite. I am not. I freely confess that the interview I conducted on the facts surrounding the mass murder in Texas haunt me. I awakened this morning having a nightmare about the events. I hope I am never in this position again to where I have to report such profound human tragedy.
In the late evening of November 8, 2017, I interviewed Vonda Smith from Sutherland Springs, Texas. Vonda’s husband origainlly reached out to me on Facebook and told me that the “real story” was not being told regarding the tragic events that took place on November 5th.

[size=42]The Interview Has Been Sabotaged[/size]

I have the raw tape of the interview and it was ready for distribution. However, my files have been infiltrated and strange music, the likes of what I have never heard, has been embedded into the recording of the interview, making the listening to the exchange between Vonda and myself nearly impossible to decipher. I am having an individual working on removing the music track and they think they can do it, however, it is going to take time. In the meantime, I do not feel that I can wait to get this information out.
Last night, I was comparing notes with Paul Preston of Agenda 21 Radio and he advised me to get this information out as soon as possible because it was not safe for either Vonda nor myelf to be the only ones in possession of the information revealed that was contained in our audio recording. I agree with Paul’s assessment, therefore, I am going to recount the interview from my perspective and am not going to wait to the release of the “repaired” audio file. When the file is restored, I will post it here as an update.

[size=42]Chris Ward’s Family[/size]

Very early in the tragedy, local media aired a report that had identified the shooter as Chris Ward. This was repeated far and wide and dominated social media. I was reporting on the fact that Kelly had been killed and was recounting the contents of his deleted Facebook page when this interview began to cross my email, multiple times naming Mr. Ward as the assailant. He was not!
All of us in the media owe Mr. Ward profound apology. Mr. Ward lost most of his family in the tragedy. As fate would have it, he was home sleeping while his family was at the ill-fated church because he had worked very late the night before. It was Mr. Wards brave wife, Joann, who was the mom that laid over her children, trying to protect them as, this animal assassin fired several bullets into the mother killing her and two of the three children. I personally extend my profound and heartfelt condolescences to Mr. Ward and his loved ones for their horrific loss.
Joann’s aunt has set up a “Go Fund Me” account to help Chris with the associated expenses . Here is the link if you wish to support Chris War and his loved ones.
https://www.gofundme.com/JOANNWARD
From the Go Fund Me page:

Quote :: “We lost my niece Joann Ward and two of her little girls in the Sutherland Springs shooting. Their youngest boy is still in unknown medical condition as he was shot 4-5 times but made it to the hospital. Joann was the most wonderful mom any child could wish for and her children were always laughing and just loving life. She leaves behind a husband and two other children that were in the church but survived the attack.
I can imagine the costs burden on her surviving husband and family. Any contribution you can make will go directly to help with funeral costs, medical costs and other losses due to this horrific tragedy. A fund for the two surviving children, Ryland, age 5 and Rihanna, age 9 will be set up for their needs with the remainder of all donations raised. Thank you. ”
Beloved mother Joann Ward.
” We lost the two middle children above, Emily and Brooke.”

This Sunday night, on The Common Sense Show, I am going to be assisting Joann’s aunt in raising the needed funds.

[size=42]The Invasion of the Body Snatchers[/size]

Vonda Smith’s description of the events immediately following the tragedy made it clear that there was no intent on the part of the authorities to preserve the intergrity of the crime scene. Apparently, “the authorities” were the FBI who seemed to make it to this town at light speed. Paul Preston told me that he saw news clips of men in FBI jackets that were on the scene in less than an hour following the shooting. Yet, there was crime scene integrity. According to Vonda, the only thing that the FBI cared about was to quickly get the bodies out of the church. This flies in the fact of “normal” crime scene investigations. Vonda recounted two stories of where the crime scene was invaded and nobody was guarding the evidence so to speak. Most telling was the fact that many of the bodies never went to the morgue for an autopsy.
Following the gruesome event, the authorities put out an all-call for people to send photos of the victims to the authorites for purposes of identifcation. One person was shown a photo of tattoos and this was used as the means to identify a dead person. The vast majority of the family member of the victims, as of Wednesday evening have not been allowed to identify their fallen relatives.
Vonda related the story of one family that was dictated to by the FBI what kind of funeral they were going to have. According to Vonda, the FBI told one family how much of the body they would be permitted to view. Additionally, the family was told whether the casket would remain open or closed.

[size=42]An Overreach of Jurisdictional Authority[/size]

Despite the fact that ISIS has taken credit for the massacre at Sutherland Springs, the FBI has stated that this was not a terrorist event. Despite the fact that the original reports stated that Kelly was an “avowed athiest”, this was not a hate crime involving Christians. Despite the fact that myself and others have revealed the Kelly has a decided Antifa affiliation and identified with ISIS, the FBI categorized and characterized this event as a “mental health” event. The FBI is wrong and just with the Vegas massacre, they are covering up the facts of the case.
The FBI needs to badly answer a question. If this is not a terrorist event, then why does the FBI have jurisdictional authority? This is a matter for the local sheriff. Why does the FBI have the right to determine what kind of casket and the degree of body exposure the victims will have? Why, now four days, after the event, have the vast majority of victims not been identified? In fact, Vonda clearly stated that the FBI was throwing deliberate roadblocks into body identification by demanding that the family had to have both the social security card and the birth certificate of the victim. Ask yourself a question America: How many of you could meet that burden? And when have you ever heard of such nonsense when it comes to proper body identification?

[size=42]A Chilling Account[/size]

Vonda recounted the eyewitness testimony of a nine year old child who survived the attack. The girl clearly and personally told Vonda that the assailant put a gun to his own head and shot himself. Vonda further stated that the girl later repeated the fact that the assailant put a gun to his head but did not repeat the fact that he shot himself. I would say it is a safe bet that the girl was accurately describing a suicide. There would be no reason for the assailant to put a gun to his head and then not fire.

[size=42]As It Was In Vegas, The Official Narrative Does Not Add Up[/size]

Paul Preston has a source that lives 3 miles from the scene of the crime and he is getting the EXACT same details as what Vonda described in that there are issues with the removal of the bodies, identification and crime scene integrity.
I have taken the facts as Vonda has described them and posed these facts to people I consider experts. Here is what they have universally concluded:
[list="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(116, 116, 116); font-family: Tahoma, Geneva, sans-serif; font-size: 17px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"]
[*]There were multiple shooters

[*]The reason that the idenfication of the bodies is being delayed is so the wounds can be surgically altered as much as possible. This is to conceal the fact that these people were likely shot with two different guns.

[*]Further, the restricted viewing aspect associated with the caskets at burial is to prevent people from seeing the conditions of the bodies as much as possible for the same reasons of concealment.

[/list]

[size=42]Conclusion[/size]

Finally, isn’t it interesting, that the alleged assailant isn’t anti-Chrisitan, not a terrorist and not affiliated with Antifa. And of course, Kelly is a typical lone nut assassin that we see every single time we have one of these events. If all of these things are true, then why is the FBI controlling the narrative as well as the protocols for the funerals? Something here stinks and stinks very badly. To the good people in the FBI, why do you tolerate the bad people in the FBI?
Again, I will upload the interview if and when we are able to repair the sabotage. It is noteworthy that the website crashed, twice, on the upload of this story.

The Vonda's story interview posted by Spring above has been restored.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWC3gh2-Y5c

!! FOXTROT JULIET BRAVO !!

To play Devil's Advocate, maybe the sheriff asked the FBI to help because of the size of the crime? I have no idea, just speculation and the only reason I could think of that the FBI might be there. I could see a small town sheriff asking for help, but that is really the only reason I could see them being there...if it isn't being treated as a terrorist attack.

Guest

Usually if the FBI is called in by local Sheriff's it is because the size of the offices cannot handle the investigative requirement and also that the FBI has Laboritories which can do a better job finding things
But we see here it is not about fingerprints and such since a person/suspect is now dead... but do we or will we see a definite link to another shooter? or something else strange going on.
Is it a False Flag? I just see that picture of peeps outside not crying or looking upset with no hand movement/waving pointing and such!
That is leads me to believe it is a DRILL?

Like I said in Mandalay WHERE IS THE BLOOD WHERE ARE THE BODIES.... NONE GO TO MORGUE??????
WELL
SOMETHING IS WRONG!
A MYSTERY, SOLVE IT.

spring2 wrote:: Usually if the FBI is called in by local Sheriff's it is because the size of the offices cannot handle the investigative requirement and also that the FBI has Laboritories which can do a better job finding things

Gotcha..thanks for the clarification!!

Guest

If all is true still the lies!

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/waatch-fake-news-msnbc-lies-about-hero-who-stopped-texas-church-mass-shooting_11092017

[WATCH] FAKE NEWS: MSNBC Lies About Hero Who Stopped Texas Church Mass Shooting

Mac Slavo
November 9th, 2017
SHTFplan.com

LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW Willeford-e1510246802462

A panel on MSNBC’s Meet the Press Daily on Tuesday made some false claims about the hero who used his own gun to stop the mass shooting at a Texas church. The media outlet lied on-air quickly alerting anyone who listened to their “fake news” narrative.
If you didn’t know that the mainstream media were all left-leaning democrats, this will surely ice the cake. MSNBC’s panel on Tuesday lied out their backsides off to the public. New York Times reporter Yamiche Alcindor and host Chuck Todd falsely claimed that NRA instructor Stephen Willeford did not shoot at the Texas church shooter and did not stop his rampage.
“When I was watching President Trump today, and he was making his argument that [the shooter] was essentially stopped by someone with a gun, I kept thinking, ‘but he killed himself,’” Alicindor falsely stated. “The shooter was not stopped, there was not a big gun fight … and I think there needs to be a fact check on how this got stopped in the first place.”
“The narrative here as you saw with Mike Huckabee and the president is a little bit off the rails,” Todd responded. Which was also a bold-faced lie. Wouldn’t it be nice if a liar’s pants actually caught on fire?
https://youtu.be/6JgO7OXjLEM

But Willeford knows what he did. When he heard the gunfire, he grabbed his AR-15 (the scary ones that no one should own and Democrats want to ban) and ran out of his house barefoot to engage the shooter. He was able to shot the gunman twice. “I know I hit him,” Willeford said. “He got into his vehicle, and he fired another couple rounds through his window.”

https://youtu.be/B4HEchh0XD8

Willeford and another civilian got into a vehicle and chased the suspect at 95 mph until he lost control of his vehicle and crashed into a ditch. He killed himself before the police could take him into custody. Multiple law enforcement officials confirmed that Willeford saved lives with his heroic actions.

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LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER SHOOTING DRILL---YES SEE BELOW

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