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 Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers

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Jrcole



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PostSubject: Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers   Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 01, 2015 5:57 pm

A sneak peak preview from our DVD, "Left Behind or Led Astray?: Examining the Origins of the Secret Pre-Tribulation Rapture Theory."

Despite the fact that some pre-trib proponents claim that the pre-trib rapture goes back to the early church fathers, even pre-trib leaders often admit that this is false, and that the early church understood Jesus’ and the apostle’s teaching that the church would go through the tribulation. A close look at what the church father's taught verifies what many pre-trib leaders admit...

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Dr. Rita



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PostSubject: Re: Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers   Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 02, 2015 1:04 am

Jrcole, agree... we will go thru tribulation , but the rapture is pre-wrath. See the rapture in Rev. Chapter 5 and again in Chapter 14.

Have you seen ....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvv2HPYdhMA

and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7T6dTs5YKw
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Jrcole



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PostSubject: Re: Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers   Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 02, 2015 8:06 am

Dr. Rita wrote:
Jrcole, agree... we will go thru tribulation , but the rapture is pre-wrath. See the rapture in Rev. Chapter 5 and again in Chapter 14.

Have you seen ....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvv2HPYdhMA

and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7T6dTs5YKw
I agree Dr. Rita. Alan Kurschner has some good material on the subject.

What Does the Pre-Wrath Rapture Position Teach?
http://www.alankurschner.com/2014/12/17/what-does-the-pre-wrath-rapture-position-teach-ep-17/

A Reply to David Reagan’s So-Called Critique of the Prewrath Position

Part 1
http://www.alankurschner.com/2015/01/07/a-reply-to-david-reagans-so-called-critique-of-the-prewrath-position-part-1-of-2-ep-19/
Part2
http://www.alankurschner.com/2015/01/16/a-reply-to-david-reagans-so-called-critique-of-the-prewrath-position-part-2-of-3-ep-20/
Part3
http://www.alankurschner.com/2015/01/19/a-reply-to-david-reagans-so-called-critique-of-the-prewrath-position-part-3-of-3-ep-21/

Why Dr. David Reagan Refuses to Defend His Pretribulationism Publicly

http://www.alankurschner.com/2015/01/02/why-dr-david-reagan-refuses-to-defend-his-pretribulationism-publicly/
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PostSubject: Re: Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers   Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 02, 2015 10:13 am

Jrcole wrote:
What Does the Pre-Wrath Rapture Position Teach?
http://www.alankurschner.com/2014/12/17/what-does-the-pre-wrath-rapture-position-teach-ep-17/

i totally agree with these 15 points. They are an excellent New Testament summation of the events that are to take place. i would only add that if one were to read and integrate Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah ... there are many more (often surprising) details to be found.
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PostSubject: Re: Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers   Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 02, 2015 10:28 am

This looks good. Mp3 audio's below for those on the run.

I've supported David Reagan's ministry monthly for years, from my pre-trib years and even after as I thought he was doing a pretty good job of getting the word out. His last few issues of Lamplighter magazine though have given me reason to pause. Nov/Dec 2014 - he hits everyone he disagrees with from L.A. Marzulli to Tom Horn and beyond. Then the pre-wrath hit in Jan/Feb 2015 issue. He doesn't seem to want to have an open discussion with anyone. It's like he's gone off the rails on some kind of "it's either MY WAY or the HIGH WAY" trip. Links below to PDF's of the magazines if ya wanna have a look.

http://traffic.libsyn.com/thebiblicalprophecyprogram/A_Reply_to_David_Reagans_So-Called_Critique_of_the_Prewrath_Position_Part_1_of_2.mp3

http://traffic.libsyn.com/thebiblicalprophecyprogram/020-Response_to_Reagan_Part_2.mp3

http://traffic.libsyn.com/thebiblicalprophecyprogram/021-Response_to_Reagan_part_3.mp3

http://www.lamblion.com/xfiles/publications/magazines/Lamplighter_NovDec14_Prophetic-Craziness.pdf

http://www.lamblion.com/xfiles/publications/magazines/Lamplighter_JanFeb15_US-Israel-Relations.pdf


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PostSubject: Re: Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers   Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 02, 2015 10:50 am

Quote :
Part2
http://www.alankurschner.com/2015/01/16/a-reply-to-david-reagans-so-called-critique-of-the-prewrath-position-part-2-of-3-ep-20/

In Part 2, I first addressed his misunderstanding of the structure of Matthew 24 explaining that vv. 9–14 is developed in vv. 15–31. In other words, vv. 9–14 does not describe what will happen during the first half of the seven year period, but what will begin to happen starting at the midpoint.

i can’t believe he said this! That is exactly what i'm seeing too. The word “therefore” in verse 15 is the key. Love it!

Also agree that the “sign of the Son of Man” where he sends his angels to gather the elect is not the actual return, which comes later.
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jumpstart

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PostSubject: Re: Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers   Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 02, 2015 12:08 pm

Researcher, I am fairly certain that Reagan also believes in Annihilationism. I also supported for years and years.
Blessings,
J
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murray leslie

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PostSubject: Re: Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers   Left Behind or Led Astray?: The Church Fathers I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 03, 2015 5:41 pm

thats nice.. no quotes from the bible, just old dead guys...
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