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 Lost section of Enoch

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Sansanoy




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PostSubject: Lost section of Enoch   Lost section of Enoch I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 20, 2018 5:06 pm

Somewhere, out there in the world, is another book attributed to Enoch that is not in the compilation known as the book of Enoch. It appears to deal with the antichrist, and if it's legit it may be what the book of Revelation draws upon. Most of the stuff in Revelation appears first in the Old Testament except for the antichrist material so it makes sense if there is a prior book with that content. To my knowledge, all we have of this missing section is quoted in the epistle of Barnabas.

Barnabas 4:2
Let us give no relaxation to our soul that it should have liberty to
consort with sinners and wicked men, lest haply we be made like unto
them.
Barnabas 4:3
The last offence is at hand, concerning which the scripture speaketh,
as Enoch saith. For to this end the Master hath cut the seasons and
the days short, that His beloved might hasten and come to His
inheritance.

Barnabas 4:4
And the prophet also speaketh on this wise; Ten reigns shall reign
upon the earth, and after them shall arise another king, who shall
bring low three of the kings under one.
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michael371
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PostSubject: Re: Lost section of Enoch   Lost section of Enoch I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 20, 2018 6:05 pm

there's my boy, sansanoy!!

its pretty obvious that it is a  direct reference to the passages in revelation....now, can we be sure that it was not gleaned out of 1st enoch?....i re-read enoch again this past summer for the umpteenth time and i cannot remember any reference this clear, if any at all, regarding this....i am pretty sure that 1st enoch is the only one of the group that has validity as scripture....2nd and 3rd are obvious frauds and i would not be surprised if they were not produced just to throw doubt at the original? book of enoch.....as you know, there are many books mentioned in the OT not in the canon and some are just lost books and no longer exist....i looked them up and will post them at the end of this....sansanoy, if you will promise me that you'll come around here a hell of a lot more often,i'll do a little looking tomorrow and see what i can come up with....i do enjoy it when you do because you love the book of genesis and pre-flood period as much as i do....i want to know what happened between genesis 1:1 and 1:2 as much as you do but the dead ends just became too much and i just cannot go the zen garcia route with all of the pseudoephigrams being considered as if they are legit...i enjoy listening,but that the extent of it....i'll look tomorrow and you make time to post more...deal? deal!...knew you'd see it my way.......
The following books and works are mentioned in the Old Testament:
1. The Book of the Wars of Yahweh (Numbers 21:14).
2. The Book of Jasher (Joshua 10:13; 2 Samuel 1:18).
3. The Book of the Rights and Duties of the King (1 Samuel 10:25).
4. Solomon’s three thousand proverbs (1 Kings 4:32).
5. Solomon’s Thousand and Five Songs (1 Kings 4:32).
6. Solomon’s manual on botany and manual on biology (1 Kings 4:33).
7. The Book of the Acts of Solomon (1 Kings 11:41).
8. The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel (1 Kings 14:19).
9. The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah (1 Kings 15:7).
10. The Book of the Kings of Judah and Israel (2 Chronicles 16:11).
11. The Midrash of the Book of the Kings (2 Chronicles 24:27).
12. The Acts of the Kings of Israel (2 Chronicles 33:18).
13. The Chronicles of King David (1 Chronicles 27:24).
14. The Chronicles of Samuel the Seer (1 Chronicles 29:29).
15. The Chronicles of Nathan the Prophet (1 Chronicles 29:29).
16. The History of Nathan the Prophet (2 Chronicles 9:29).
17. The Vision of Isaiah (2 Chronicles 32:32).
18. The Chronicles of Gad the Seer (1 Chronicles 29:29).
19. The Prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite (2 Chronicles 9:29).
20. The Visions of Iddo the Seer (2 Chronicles 9:29).
21. The Genealogical Records by Iddo the Seer (2 Chronicles 12:15).
22. The Midrash of the Prophet Iddo (2 Chronicles 13:22).
23. The Chronicles of Shemaiah the Prophet (2 Chronicles 12:15).
24. The Chronicles of Jehu the son of Hanani (2 Chronicles 20:34).
25. The Acts of Uzziah Written by Isaiah the Prophet (2 Chronicles 26:22).
26. The History of Hozai (2 Chronicles 33:19).
27. The Book of the Laments (2 Chronicles 35:25).
28. The Memorial Book about the Amalekites (Exodus 17:14).
29. The Book of the Covenant (Exodus 24:7).
30. The Book of the LORD (Isaiah 34:16).
31. The Book of the Angels (Nehemiah 12:23).
32. The Annals of the Kings of Media and Persia (Esther 10:2).
33. The Chronicles of King Ahasuerus (Esther 2:23).
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bordercollie

bordercollie


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PostSubject: Re: Lost section of Enoch   Lost section of Enoch I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 20, 2018 6:50 pm

Thanks !!!   Just think if the  "lost" books hadn't been removed ...
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Sansanoy




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PostSubject: Re: Lost section of Enoch   Lost section of Enoch I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 21, 2018 6:15 am

Wow Michael, we are missing a whole lot! I'll try to post more, I would post more but I have a lot of self doubt which leads me to do a lot research but also makes me fearful over everything I say. I've listened to Zen, I think he is a Christian brother but I think he suffers the opposite problem. He seems to incorporate the conclusion he feels is true in determining whether a text is legit or not. But that is putting the cart before the horse.

Whatever this missing section is it is either before Christ, or written after Revelation which places it in the second century or later. The reason why it could be before Christ is that it contains this idea that the season would be cut short. in Luke 20:36 we can see Jesus drawing upon an understanding that we only find in Enoch. The explanation for why there will be no marriage in heaven is that we will be like the angels who do not die. The understanding of this comparison is acquired only in Enoch in the explanation of God to the angels on why he gave procreation to man. That being that the angels live eternally and man dies. So Jesus does appear to draw upon the audiences understanding of that content, which, to our knowledge only shows up in Enoch.

I would be concerned about the title "Master" in the first quote of Enoch. Because that sounds like a term we might hear in late literature for Jesus but the word in Greek is despotés (strongs 1203) and can mean Lord. In the same way that Master might have given us a late date, the use of Beloved might give us an earlier date. The only time in the new testament in which Jesus is called Beloved is when God calls Him that. No new testament writer uses "beloved" as a replacement word to indicate Jesus. The "beloved one" comes from the OT, for the Lord of Hosts (Jesus), and comes from Isaiah 5. So it seems who ever wrote this fragment is thinking from the OT perspective, before Christ. That is only half the work though, we would need an expert in all the writings of that time period to tell us if Beloved gets used as a replacement word for Jesus outside the new testament. Barring a word on that, there is at least some indication that this might be before the time of Christ.

(Since the compilation of Enoch is very large, if anyone wants an outside reference showing that this fragment is not in Enoch click the mass link below...sorry hyperlink doesn't seem to be working

https://books.google.com/books?id=kg0nAQAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA140&lpg=RA1-PA140&dq=book+of+enoch+For+to+this+end+the+Master+hath+cut+the+seasons+and+the+days+short,+that+His+beloved+might+hasten+and+come+to+His+inheritance.&source=bl&ots=1aFHt5zU_7&sig=uJNsdiRCW9Lh-shPbfuPCZvzJSU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiylbH1hbHfAhUOzlkKHb59BmwQ6AEwBHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=book%20of%20enoch%20For%20to%20this%20end%20the%20Master%20hath%20cut%20the%20seasons%20and%20the%20days%20short%2C%20that%20His%20beloved%20might%20hasten%20and%20come%20to%20His%20inheritance.&f=false
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michael371
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PostSubject: Re: Lost section of Enoch   Lost section of Enoch I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 21, 2018 5:30 pm

i spent the day, off and on, looking around for any reference or quote or commentary,actually ANYTHING that would tie to the enoch reference that you posted....that quote is all i found....i mean it is ALL that i found..... i found ZERO info like that in any way,shape of form....i have the gnostic gospels here and the lost books of eden, both utter jiberish, nothing in them, so i don't know what to think....it looks like you found the only one of those that could be from enoch
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