Revelation 8 and 9

i have been an advocate for the trumpets and vials lining up but have recently been considering that maybe they don’t, at least not entirely. While they are very similar in many ways, it is the references to “one third” in the trumpets that seem to set the trumpets apart from the vials. Lately, i’ve been thinking that the trumpets might signify the fall of Babylon. This is a first draft so i hope you will let me know what you think and let me know of any discrepancies.

Revelation 8
1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

This is when the 144,000 are sealed during the Fall Feasts.

Revelation 7
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

Revelation 12
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

That was what just happened during the first 4 trumpets.

Revelation 13
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Ten crowns in Revelation 13 signifies his rise before Revelation 12 begins where he has seven crowns. At the time of Revelation 12, three have fallen (Babylon has fallen, has fallen plus one other). In Daniel 7:8 three of the first horns are plucked up by the roots before the little horn.

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Revelation 14
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

The first five trumpets take place during the Fall Feasts previous to the last 3.5 years. The 144,000 were marked at this time and go into the wilderness for 3.5 years (Tabernacles) or the woman goes into the wilderness around Passover (?). The first five trumpets signify the fall of Babylon, Babylon, or 1/3 of the earth previous to the abomination of desolation at Purim (30 days prior to Passover).

AND THEN ... Apollyon (the beast) arrives and takes over the earth (or the antichrist)!

Revelation 9
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Revelation 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

I wonder if this is Yellowstone erupting and if that’s the reason everyone who was attacking Babylon runs away (Jeremiah 51:9). Also I’ve heard that the particles from a volcanic blast would render all missles and aircraft useless. So anyone remaining would be safe from future attack.

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

Revelation 14
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

https://watchermeet-up.forumotion.com/t10253-revelation-14#28049

Edit 1x

It does seem to me that it’s quite possible the 7th trumpet and the 7th vial are in alignment, representing the same event because they both speak of finality.

Revelation 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Revelation 16
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

As for the 6th trumpet and the 6th vial however:

Revelation 9
13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Revelation 16
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

They are very similar but in Revelation 9 we still have a reference to the third part, which seems to tie it to the trumpets alone. Also, they do not repent so it seems that they carry on for a while longer. After the sixth vial however, there will be no future for these people.

Perhaps the likeness has to do with a force being unleashed that will culminate at the sixth vial. It sounds like China to me (a 2 million man army from the east). And just because the dragon, beast, and false prophet are mentioned, doesn’t mean that this is their army. It could represent east meets west (or the king of the north and the king of the south spoken of in Daniel ?) that will converge at Armageddon in the end.

There is also a reference to the four horns of the golden altar in Revelation 9, which reminds me of Zechariah 1:18-21. It’s a loose association to be sure but in context, takes on much more meaning.

Revelation 9
13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

Zechariah 1
18 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and saw, and behold four horns.
19 And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What be these? And he answered me, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem.
20 And the LORD shewed me four carpenters.
21 Then said I, What come these to do? And he spake, saying, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, so that no man did lift up his head: but these are come to fray them, to cast out the horns of the Gentiles, which lifted up their horn over the land of Judah to scatter it.

Glad to see you reading Gavin Finley, ML. Who would have thunk it? Endtime Pilgrim is a great place to spend hours and hours reading, learning and studying. It's in my 'hit parade' top 10.

Great suggestion guys. But you don't care much for the order of things, eh Murray?

Zechariah 1
18 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and saw, and behold four horns.
19 And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What be these? And he answered me, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem.
20 And the LORD shewed me four carpenters.
21 Then said I, What come these to do? And he spake, saying, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, so that no man did lift up his head: but these are come to fray them, to cast out the horns of the Gentiles, which lifted up their horn over the land of Judah to scatter it.

Immediately afterwards, in Zechariah 2, we see a man with a measuring line in his hand. This is interesting because the next thing we see in Revelation is the angel (Yeshua) come down in the cloud from heaven with a book and right after that John is given a rod and told to measure the temple of God.

Zechariah 2
1 I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand.
2 Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof.

This takes us to Revelation 11.

Revelation 11
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Just before Revelation 11, John is given a little book by the man in the cloud and told to eat it.

Revelation 10
10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

The same thing happened to Ezekiel. The book was full of lamentations, mourning, and woe.

Ezekiel 2
9 And when I looked, behold, an hand was sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book was therein;
10 And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.
Ezekiel 3
1 Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, eat that thou findest; eat this roll, and go speak unto the house of Israel.

The same man in Revelation 10, who stands on the sea and upon the earth with his hands lifted up to heaven, can be found in Daniel 11 doing the same thing. Daniel can see two other men there with him (John and Ezekiel?). This is what the man says:

Daniel 12
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

i've come to understand, the day of the Lord starts with gog/magog, and ends with armeggedon, or the day of the Lord, and the day of Christ(who is also the Lord), or the sun going dark,the moon to blood, and the sun and the moon not giving their light, we have three witnesses people, u start here and the chronos falls in order, the fifth seal does not fall in the last half of the tribulation, it is a birth pang, but his site does have a lot of good info...

dan12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

just trying to figure this one but the wording is interesting when looking @ this...


rev20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

again the 1st resurrection only involved tribulation saints...groovy...

Funny you should mention Gog and Magog Murray.

God has plans for his people. The land has been taken over by the Gentiles but God wants Jerusalem back and is making preparations.

Zechariah 2
1 I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand.
2 Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof.
3 And, behold, the angel that talked with me went forth, and another angel went out to meet him,
4 And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein:

This identifies them as the people who will be attacked by Gog in Ezekiel 38.

Ezekiel 38
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

This is where it starts to get interesting.

Zechariah 2
5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.
6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.
7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.
8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

God’s people are to deliver themselves and flee from Babylon, the land of the north and God will protect them. The children of Israel that live in Babylon are the apple of his eye. This is mentioned in Jeremiah 50 and 51 also, which is about the fall of Babylon. This has ties to the historical return from Babylon but also speaks of a future event that hasn’t happened yet.

Notice the reference to the four winds of heaven. We can also find them here:

Ezekiel 37
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

That one speaks of resurrection but it continues.

Ezekiel 37
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

That is speaking of the regathering of Israel and Judah prior to Ezekiel 38 and the Gog invasion.

We also see the four winds here:

Matthew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

and here:

Revelation 7
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

And he goes on to name 12 of the tribes of Israel. However, Ephraim is not mentioned here, nor is Dan, so the actual gathering back to the land must happen later. Maybe after 3.5 years in the wilderness?

eze 37 refers to 1948, the beginning of the last gen. Israel and their strong army, every war since '48 Israel shoulda bin toast, but no...

Hi Murray, thanks for your input. You may not want to hear this but if Babylon hasn’t fallen yet, if Ephraim hasn’t been reunited with Judah, if the resurrection hasn’t taken place, and if Yeshua hasn’t appeared (second coming) to bring Israel back to the land, then this has not been fulfilled yet.

i know that some men say it is, and i’m sure it looked that way because it’s pretty amazing that we have a country named Israel again, but they are mistaken (though i’m sure they did their best with the information they had at the time). The thing is, according to prophecy, Israel will be invaded one more time, the time of Jacob’s trouble. That’s why antichrist will be able to set up the abomination of desolation. It is after this time of trouble that Yeshua will gather his people and set up HIS kingdom - and that’s what Ezekiel 37 is about.

Lovisa wrote:

Hi Murray, thanks for your input. You may not want to hear this but if Babylon hasn’t fallen yet, if Ephraim hasn’t been reunited with Judah, if the resurrection hasn’t taken place, and if Yeshua hasn’t appeared (second coming) to bring Israel back to the land, then this has not been fulfilled yet.

i know that some men say it is, and i’m sure it looked that way because it’s pretty amazing that we have a country named Israel again, but they are mistaken (though i’m sure they did their best with the information they had at the time). The thing is, according to prophecy, Israel will be invaded one more time, the time of Jacob’s trouble. That’s why antichrist will be able to set up the abomination of desolation. It is after this time of trouble that Yeshua will gather his people and set up HIS kingdom - and that’s what Ezekiel 37 is about.

Yup, I do believe that you have a pretty good handle on it. The Nazis took one third of the entire worlds Jewish population in the holocaust however scripture tells us that in the end two thirds will die. I believe that not only means Israel the country proper but everywhere else as well. Y'all are aware that much (maybe ½ or more) of the worlds Jewry lives in America. Also I'm including both Judah and Ephraim (those two sticks in Ez 37) in that two thirds. Sobering thought.

This has been an interesting thread.

Ez 37: 15-19 wrote:

¹⁵ The word of the Lord came to me: ¹⁶ “Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, ‘Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with him.’ Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, ‘Belonging to Joseph (that is, to Ephraim) and all the Israelites associated with him.’ ¹⁷ Join them together into one stick so that they will become one in your hand.
¹⁸ “When your people ask you, ‘Won’t you tell us what you mean by this?’ ¹⁹ say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am going to take the stick of Joseph—which is in Ephraim’s hand—and of the Israelite tribes associated with him, and join it to Judah’s stick. I will make them into a single stick of wood, and they will become one in my hand.’

so Israel has no significance... coming into being, in '48, in your opinion?

Thanks Researcher! Glad you found it interesting.

Murray, i’m sure there is much significance in Israel becoming a nation again. And i’m sure all of this is part of God’s plan to bring in his kingdom. The thing is though, they’re not as good as gold yet. If they were, the kingdom could come today. But there are impurities that need to be refined in the fire because they’re not fully walking according to God’s will. It’s all written about in the bible. Us too, unfortunately. In the end though, it will all be good beyond belief. God knows what he’s doing.

Lovisa wrote:

Hi Murray, thanks for your input. You may not want to hear this but if Babylon hasn’t fallen yet, if Ephraim hasn’t been reunited with Judah, if the resurrection hasn’t taken place, and if Yeshua hasn’t appeared (second coming) to bring Israel back to the land, then this has not been fulfilled yet.

It just occurred to me that this part could be easily misunderstood. When i say he will bring Israel back to the land, i mean the 10 lost tribes (Israel/Ephraim). Judah is already back.

This is a revision of a paragraph above.

Quote :

The first five trumpets take place during the Fall Feasts previous to the last 3.5 years. The 144,000 were marked at this time and go into the wilderness for 3.5 years (Tabernacles) or the woman goes into the wilderness around Passover (?). The first five trumpets signify the fall of Babylon, Babylon, or 1/3 of the earth previous to the abomination of desolation at Purim (30 days prior to Passover).

We know that the 144,000 are the firstfruits and they will be sealed before the others.

Revelation 14
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

So, it’s possible that they are the man child and not the woman in the wilderness.

Revelation 12
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12 says they sing their song before the throne.

Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

If that were to be the case, then they could be marked around Trumpets to “escape the hour of temptation”. The last 3.5 years would then begin at Passover (5 months + 30 days later) at which time the woman would flee to the wilderness. And it would all culminate 3.5 years later, again at the Fall Feasts.

As for what Daniel says about the 1335 days,

Daniel 12
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

“75 days is the same amount of time between God’s feast day of Atonement, when the high priest goes into the Holy of Holies, and the feast of Dedication, or Chanukah.”

Quote is from David Flynn’s Watcher Website where he has much more to say on the matter.
http://www.mt.net/~watcher/week.html