Jews on Zionism

i couldn’t help but notice threads like these lately:
https://watchermeet-up.forumotion.com/t10951-satanic-hatred-of-israel
https://watchermeet-up.forumotion.com/t10917-can-you-guess-who-i-am-shocker
and this
https://watchermeet-up.forumotion.com/t10944-the-leader-of-isis-is-a-zionist-jew

How do these things fit in with Albert Pike’s plans to cause 3 world wars for Luciferian ends, one of which is yet to come?
https://watchermeet-up.forumotion.com/t10936-the-illuminati-s-final-solution-begins

Following, is a Jewish perspective on Zionism and the State of Israel. It is written, not by your average, ordinary Jew, but by those who know their God and diligently study his Torah. Are they traitors? Or are they seeing things from a more Godly perspective? You decide. Either way, they should be heard. Maybe they can help shed some light on this matter.

JUDAISM AND ZIONISM ARE NOT THE SAME THING
http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/judaism_isnot_zionism.cfm

We would like to take a few minutes of your time to prevent you from making a terrible mistake that may have disastrous results for many.

You have always without a doubt heard and read much about the political crises in the Middle East in which the State of Israel plays a central role. This is, in fact, an ongoing series of crises with potential to bring the greatest misfortune on the entire world. Tragically many believe that Zionism and Judaism are identical. Thus they conclude that the entire Jewish people is responsible for the actions of the Zionist government and the world crises which emanates from it. This is a Grave Error!

The truth is that the Jewish faith and Zionism are two very different philosophies. They are as opposite as day and night. The Jewish people have existed for thousands of years. In their two thousand years of Divinely decreed exile no Jew ever sought to end this exile and establish independent political sovereignty anywhere. The people's sole purpose was the study and fulfillment of the Divine commandments of the Torah.

The Zionist movement created the Israeli state. The latter is a persuasion less than one hundred years old. Its essential goal was and is to change the nature of the Jewish people from that of a religious entity to a political movement. From Zionism's inception the spiritual leaders of the Jewish people stood in staunch opposition to it.

To this day Torah Jewry remains forever loyal to its faith. Zionists want the world to believe that they are the representatives of the entire Jewish people. This is false! The Jewish people never chose them as their leaders.

The Zionists have deceived many well meaning Jewish people via terror, trickery and false propaganda. They have at their disposal the use of a nearly universally subservient media. Whoever attempts to criticize them puts his livelihood and, at times, his very life in danger.

However, despite the media blackout and easy resort to terror the simple truth remains unrefuted and irrefutable: ACCORDING TO THE JEWISH FAITH AND TORAH LAW THE JEWISH PEOPLE ARE FORBIDDEN TO HAVE THEIR OWN STATE WHILE AWAITING THE MESSIANIC ERA!

The Creator gave us the Holy Land thousands of years ago. Yet, when we sinned, He took it away and sent us into exile. Since that time our task is to wait for Him to send the Messiah. At that time, the Creator alone, without any human being lifting a hand or saying a word, will bring us together and take us out of exile. He will likewise establish universal peace among all mankind and all will serve Him in good will.

Some religious Jews, confused by Zionist propaganda quote Biblical verses that state that G-d gave the children of Israel the Holy Land. They overlook, unfortunately, those verses which say that He took it away due to our sins. They further ignore those prophecies which explicitly describe the last exile's conclusion as a Divine, not a human process.

The Creator has commanded every Jew to follow the ways of peace and to be loyal to the country where he lives.

Torah true Jewry waits patiently for the Messianic redemption. They have nothing to do with any kind of pseudo "Jewish State" and its aggressions against other peoples. They have a deep sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians who have suffered the most from Zionism's false teachings and barbaric actions. The Zionist state is not a Jewish state. The Zionists alone are the only ones responsible for their actions. Authentic Jewry has and will continue to oppose the very existence of this blasphemous state.

May all mankind witness the true redemption.

I'm really glad you posted this, Lovisa, because it has become increasingly evident to me that the atrocious acts of Zionism will be used against the Jewish people (who are as responsible for their actions as the American people are for the actions of the CIA - NOT!)

If the leader of ISIS is a Zionist Jew and the spokesman for Al Qaeda is an American Jew (Adam Perlman aka Adam Gadahn whose paternal grandfather was on the board of the Anti Defamation League), what can we say about these "Islamic" organizations - they are less about religion and more about being the rabid dogs who terrorize people groups and countries into falling in line with the globalist agenda, much like the brown shirts of the 1930s.

i have to agree with you Rose that Zionism is being used against the Jewish people, not for their good. And what a perfect parallel that, in the same way, we aren't in agreement with or responsible for actions of the CIA. They represent someone but it isn't us.

I think that this  (Zionism) is one of the primary means with which the antichrist will whip the nations into a frenzy against Israel and the Jewish people (especially the nations of Christendom).

Beware of those who say they are Jews but are not and do lie.

Believe me I don't want to offend, but I have problems with this article.
It seems the author is defining and taking 'sides'; Torah Jews vs Zionists.
Looks like the pot calling the kettle black to me.

He might be 'right', yet he is still dead wrong and each is as accursed as the other.

1 John 2:
²¹ I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
²² Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
²³ Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.


How can a Torah Jew claim to partake of the whole counsel, or render the whole council of God?  I don't see how.  How is a present day Torah Jew any different from the Pharisee of 2000 years ago?

Pots and kettles: did Jesus treat Nicodemus and Herod the same way?  Both were considered Jews.

Dove, I think you've misunderstood the point.

The Jews are no more responsible for the actions of the Mossad than the American people are for the CIA - both organizations have been hijacked.  That is the primary point of this post.

I understand that the actions of governments do not reflect the mind, heart, soul of the people.
But when I read the posted article, I thought it was making quite a different point.
Maybe I misread it.  No harm intended.

rose from kentucky wrote:

The Jews are no more responsible for the actions of the Mossad than the American people are for the CIA - both organizations have been hijacked.  That is the primary point of this post.

Well stated and exactly my thoughts on this as well.

Thank you, Dove and researcher, for understanding.  You both are sweethearts.

Very interesting thoughts everyone.

Keep in mind, this is not a question of being for or against Israel. i’m pretty sure we are all FOR Israel. The question raised is, is Israel to be built by man or will it be God who brings it back into existence? In this case, i personally agree with the Rabbis. Man is relying on wealth, power, and intrigue of every sort to bring about the desired end. They are not trusting in God.

The following scriptures are about the destruction of Jerusalem BY GOD. He is warning people ahead of time but they will not listen, neither to God nor to their teachers. The people who help them are told not to but they do it anyway. God’s instructions are to have confidence in and wait on Him. 

In the end, when God pours out his wrath on Jerusalem, both those fighting against Judah and those who are defending it will perish. The good news is, there is a remnant who listened to God. They will be protected and brought back to the land.

Isaiah 30
7 For the Egyptians shall help in vain, and to no purpose: therefore have I cried concerning this, Their strength is to sit still.
8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant. …
15 For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not. …
18 And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.
19 For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem: thou shalt weep no more: he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when he shall hear it, he will answer thee.
20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:

Isaiah 31
1 Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help; and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many; and in horsemen, because they are very strong; but they look not unto the Holy One of Israel, neither seek the LORD!
2 Yet he also is wise, and will bring evil, and will not call back his words: but will arise against the house of the evildoers, and against the help of them that work iniquity.
3 Now the Egyptians are men, and not God; and their horses flesh, and not spirit. When the LORD shall stretch out his hand, both he that helpeth shall fall, and he that is holpen shall fall down, and they all shall fail together …

PS: i edit these verses only for the purpose of condensing on the forum. (i'd put up much more but that would take a long time to read). Please feel free to go over the entire chapters and fill in the gaps if you so desire.

Dove , I applaud your discernment for showing 1 John 2 ;23 and I would add the reference of Jhn 5:46
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Now american people are responsible for the actions of their representatives and God said Judgement begins at the House of God , so American pulpits and the men of the church have failed, few , a remnant are always left to tell this unpleasant truth.

Bravo Dove!

Some day I'd love to hear the rest of your story, Dr. Rita.    If you said 'as tongues of fire' I'd surely believe you!!!

My little mind (and little time) means I have to work sloooowly and piece by piece through some of these posts, and sometimes just can't at all, no matter how much I'd like to.  

Quote:

"The question raised is, is Israel to be built by man or will it be God who brings it back into existence? In this case, i personally agree with the Rabbis. Man is relying on wealth, power, and intrigue of every sort to bring about the desired end. They are not trusting in God."

We know that ALL nations are ruled over by satan; Israel and America included.
In their formation were the Godly and the Ungodly.  (wheat and tares together.  Satan all over it as  he is with every move of God.)

How today would God raise up any nation except through men and through the governing systems of the world?
What did the Rabbi think it would look like?  "Poof?"  Or magically effortless?  That's never been the case no matter how obedient to God any man was.  In fact, the more obedience to God, the more strife, not less.
IF he is thinking that the Messiah will establish the nation, sure, I agree.  But to get to the Messianic Reign we have prophecies not yet fulfilled which require the existence of the Nation of Israel. 
Without the Nation of Israel there is no 70th week, no return of Jesus on the horizon.

The world under satan was successfully carrying out mass extermination of the Jews.  What better time for God to intervene?  Ezekiel seems to prove out as the prophet of these times, but maybe I can address the verses quoted from Isaiah.  At first read, they fit pretty well with the known history of the establishment of the Nation , which took many years to come to fruition.

Maybe the Rabbi hoped to avoid Ezekiel 37,38, etc.  But whether it was now or 500 years from now, there's no avoiding those prophecies.
And we have many reasons to think the 6000 years allotted to satan is at it's close and everything is happening on God's time according to God's Word.

Hi Dove. You make some very good points. You are absolutely right that without the State of Israel being in existence, prophecy wouldn’t be able to be fulfilled. It’s meant to be. But that doesn’t mean God is happy with it/them (read the prophets). There’s a verse that i would like to find again (Psalms?, Isaiah?) that says something along the lines of, now that God’s cleaned house of those unrighteous ones (and He has returned), we can procede in the way that He intended. (If i can find it, i’ll post it).

Do you know much about the Rothschilds and Sabbateans who are building the current state? Or of Chabad Lubavitch and their Noahide laws (obey or be beheaded)? Have you ever read the Talmud? Horrors! They are the people who are building the current state of Israel and giving them a very bad name. They are also the reason so many people in the world hate the Jews.

The Rabbis quoted in my post above are Torah-keepers. They are Godly and knowledgable about the scriptures. They may have missed Messiah the first time around but you can be sure they will know him when he returns.

Anyway, to my understanding, the Isaiah passage above is for the end times and does not tell us to be against the Jews. It just says that God is going to judge them and it would be wise not to stand in his way. We are told to wait for God and have confidence in him (that is what the Rabbis are doing).

i’m glad you brought up Ezekiel 37 because (contrary to what our teachers have been telling us) it hasn’t happened yet. Ezekiel 29-36 need to take place first. However, Ezekiel 37 will happen before Ezekiel 38-39 take place. The misunderstanding that Ezekiel 37 has happened already is throwing many people’s interpretations off. Read it carefully and you will know what i mean. This is what the Rabbis understand and the church does not.

Ezekiel 37 is Matthew 24:31, which is Revelation 7:1 and Daniel 12:1-3.

Blessings!

After spending a couple of hours studying and writing, I filed it away and thought to go back to bed.
Then the answer came quickly.

There's only one thing that makes the difference here on earth between men (any man) and God and that's the Cross.
As Jesus said, and the Spirit said after His Ascension, "No man comes to the Father but by Me."

Whether a Priest, a Rabbi, a Preacher, a Monk, artist, politician, accountant, fisherman, mother, father, beggar or king, there's only one question.  Have they received the Only Acceptable Sacrifice for sin that God made of Himself so that He might deem a person Forgiven, can make them  'clean'  to receive His Holy Spirit who leads us in all Righteousness, and grants us Fellowship with Him.  THESE are the ones who inherit the Promise of the Kingdom, and who will dwell in the House of the Lord forever. 

I see Jesus revealed by God all throughout the Old Testament.  We're admonished to not look down on the Jew for their blindness, as it was wrought by God for a purpose.  But I couldn't call those men Godly or versed in scripture.
It amazes me that anyone could read Isaiah and still not know, not see,  not understand.  But I don't deserve my salvation or the Mercy and Grace contained therein.  Is is only by (the) Christ in me (that I have) the hope of Glory.
So I pray that these men live long enough to see the Day and recognize their Messiah.

The rest of it, the various factions of the minds of men, count for nothing. We know the spirit in them by the Fruit .  No Spirit of the Living God=no Truth.  For the sake of the world we cry Maranatha.  For the sake of the unsaved we 'patiently' wait.

Dove, from your previous writings, i thought you guys were pro-Israel, fight for Israel, turn a blind eye to Israel and support them in every way, and God will annhilate their enemies because they’re the holy children of God. So i’m feeling a little confused by what appears to be harsh judgment. Am i reading this wrong?

Have you been saying all along that you support the Rothschilds, Sabbateans and Hasidics and their associated works but are now saying you have no respect for Torah Jews? i hope you will clear this up for me because it’s very confusing. Thanks.

Lovisa wrote:

Dove, from your previous writings, i thought you guys were pro-Israel, fight for Israel, turn a blind eye to Israel and support them in every way, and God will annhilate their enemies because they’re the holy children of God. So i’m feeling a little confused by what appears to be harsh judgment. Am i reading this wrong?

Have you been saying all along that you support the Rothschilds, Sabbateans and Hasidics and their associated works but are now saying you have no respect for Torah Jews? i hope you will clear this up for me because it’s very confusing. Thanks.

Ok. As I said, the Cross is my line in the sand because it's God line in the sand. Yes, Israel is important to God.  Not because they're 'good', but because He is True to His Word. (Bible) So He will bring 'all who will' to repentance through Christ Jesus, and honor His Promises to them to make Israel a Holy nation of Kings and Priests.

Maybe your reading of the Bible seems to say all Jews will be saved.  My read of the Bible says without Yeshua no one is saved.    There are only two groups of people in the world, the saved and the unsaved, whether Jew or gentile.
Without Jesus we die in our sins.  And the wages of sin is death, not eternal Life.
(the Old Testament saints who died before Jesus was sent into the world had a different experience.)

So the Bible says that the blindness of the Jews is in part for the purpose of redemption of the gentiles.  The Gospel will be preached to all nations, and then the end shall come.  By no means is every gentile saved, nor will every Jew accept Messiah and be saved.

Bible says God will seal 144,000, and that He will show Himself as God and turn their hearts back to Him.  If He's going to resurrect every Jew for this endtimes last chance, I don't see it in the Book.
There was something John was told to seal up in Revelation that of course we don't know what it was.

So how is it that 'we' are pro-Israel?  They were the people through whom God chose to bring Salvation from the curse into the world.  From their successes, failures and sufferings we learn that man in his fallen state cannot redeem himself. But that God Himself will provide the Lamb and through Him we can receive forgiveness and have eternal life. God bless those people who were in bondage and slavery in Egypt and remembered the God of their fathers.
Israel is the apple of God's eye.  The world doesn't understand that.  But a Christian does (should).
This I think is the primary reason.  "Salvation" (Yeshua) comes through the Jewish nation,"  the first time and the 2nd time that we wait for. 
Yet all Glory and Honor belongs to Jesus Alone, and the Glory that will shine forth from Zion is Him.
 

You asked, "Have you been saying all along that you support the Rothschilds, Sabbateans and Hasidics and their associated works but are now saying you have no respect for Torah Jews? "

No. It has nothing to do with respect for any man and everything to do with Position in Christ. The last two I've barely heard mention of.  (But I'm  guessing they aren't Brothers in Christ.)    And I know of no 'born again' Rothschild.  As far as the Rothschilds, I asked if perhaps they were being set up by satan and the world  to perpetuate the hatred and persecution of the Jew.  That's not advocating support of a Zionist government by any stretch.  The world is presently ruled by satan through his chief princes.  I have no respect for any government; I don't live or die for any of them.  I strive to 'live, move and have my being in the Spirit of God which is the
Kingdom of God, and something the world has no knowledge of.

I think the Word tells us Israel will again be under the tribulum of the threshing floor, and 'It is written'.  It's going to happen.  Supporting Israel means taking the Word of their Salvation to them, praying to God to open their eyes and their hearts to receive Him.


The Illuminati stamp is on Israel, no argument.  And it's the Rothschild name on the Supreme Court.  But I don't think that means God wasn't ready to reinstate the nation.  I don't think it would have come to pass unless it was His chosen time.

The Cross has been an Offense to millions, but I don't see exemptions granted to anyone in the Word. We are told it is by Jesus and Him Alone that we are saved.
That's not a personal indictment that I make;  it's just accepting the Word as Truth, whether I like it or not.  God is bound by His Word.  IOW, He has to honor what He's said.
And if the Word says it's any other way than what I've said, then you'll have to kindly show it to me because I am obliged to conform my understanding to the what the Word says, not how I might like it to be.

I hope this clarified, and helped ease your offense.  I believe that as we care about any person, we who are in Christ, who know Him and know the the Word is Truth are obliged to consider their eternal life and not leave them where they're at.
Looking back through the Bible, just ask 'what is THE knowledge that saves a man's soul?'  Why, if the Old Covenant was sufficient unto eternal life, did God make a New Covenant with man, a Way to Salvation when there was no Way? And bring it to the Synagogue first?   He didn't exclude the Rabbis. Why should we withhold the Path to Salvation from them?  So as not to offend?  That's not a good reason in God's sight.