Are the Saints in the Tribulation?

“Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time” (Revelation 12:12).

Are the Saints in the Tribulation?



Compiled and Formatted by Tom Stephens

Some are convinced the church will go through the seven-year Tribulation period because they have found the word “saints” mentioned several times in the book of Revelation. Therefore, some will answer, “Yes” to the question in this title. It is true that from the beginning of the seven-year Tribulation (chapter six), the text mentions “saints” thirteen times. Revelation also mentions another group called elders, or Church Age saints─those who are the dwellers of heaven after the Rapture (Revelation 12:12).

The twelve other “mentions” deal with those who were born-again during the Tribulation and begin with Revelation 8:3-4, which is smack-dab in the middle of the second set of very serious seven trumpet judgments on earth! This group of saints failed to come to salvation in Christ during the Church Age and now face demonic entities in the Tribulation period (example, chapter nine).

The evidence is very strong that the saints mentioned in the book of Revelation are those who washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb during the Tribulation period—as martyrs—murdered by those who dwell on earth! The following Scriptures tell us the evil that lies in the hearts of that reprobate group of “earth dwellers.” So, who are the ddwellers of the earth?

What does John say in Revelation about those who dwell on the earth?o:p>


· They slay each other with a great sword (Rev. 6:3-4).

· They are those who murder the Tribulation Saints (Rev. 6:10).

· The wrath of God “3 woe judgments” specifically falls on them (Rev. 8:13).

· They murder and rejoice over the deaths of the two Jewish witnesses (Rev. 11:10).

· The message given by these two prophets will torment them (Rev. 11:10).

· They worship Antichrist, and their names aren’t in the Book of Life (13:8, 12).

· They will be deceived by the miracles of the false prophet (Rev. 13:14).

· Will be intoxicated and blinded by a false one-world religious system (Rev.17:2).

· TThey will worship the beast (Antichrist) and they will accept his mark (Rev. 20:4).

Please stay with me while we learn who the elders are as named in God’s Word:

Reading from Revelation 7.9-12/b>::

“b>A great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb.

And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God forever and ever. Amen.”

Notice the elders are worshipping along with the martyred Tribulation saints in heaven. Now we need to look closely at the rest of the passage, for the apostle John, now an elder, is having a discussion with another elder who was—in chapter four—raptured into heaven. Their conversation is extremely important if we desire the truth as to the identity of this massive, innumerable group of saints are.

Verse 13 begins the conversation between these two members (elders) of the Church Age. Note the elders and the saints are now dwellers of heaven—elders being the raptured church of Jesus Christ! As verse 12 states, the innumerable body of saints “fell before the throne on their faces, saying, “Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, be unto our God forever and ever. Amen.”

Now let’s look closer at their conversation:

Verse 13: One elder says to John: “What (who) are these arrayed in white robes? And where did they come from?

John’s response: “Sir, you already know, don’t you?

The other elder answered John:

“Yes. These are they who came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them 16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more, neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes” (Revelation 7:13-17).

This group is those who were martyred during the seven trumpet judgments (Rev. 7:7-13). They had their white robes but notice God wasn’t exactly telling them they would rule the world with Christ Himself. What the Word tells us is that these saints will continually serve God day and night. He will dwell among them, feed them; and they will not thirst. Unlike we who are saved during the period of grace, this group rejected Jesus during the Church Age when the Holy Spirit desired to bring them to Christ.

Some Christians today believe those who enter the Tribulation period, unsaved probably do not deserve another chance during the Tribulation. Christ is being very gentle with this group He so loves and because He loves them as His own, He blesses them in many ways…by His eternal love. Yet, they will have jobs related to their judgments, and ruling with Christ may not be a reality for these people.

Though God shows His commitment to bring all men to Himself now, many are still rejecting Him today—and will continue to reject Him in the future tribulation period, no matter how terrible this demonic time will be! Here’s what apostle John wrote about this subject:

“And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt. And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts” (Revelation 9:17-21).

It’s amazing to me that in this demonic time of the Tribulation period men remain rebellious—rejecting Christ!

In every case, the elders of the New Testament church were God-anointed men working and ministering under the Holy Spirit of our Lord Jesus Christ. But the saints mentioned in Revelation 7:9-17 are an uncountable group. Many have been murdered during this time of tribulation. The Great Tribulation begins in the middle of the week and is the most horrible time ever on earth—so much so that there, will never again be a time like it!

Yet, some Tribulation saints likely will live into the 1,000-year millennial reign of Christ—under Christ’s rule. The elders will meet Christ in the air, then in heaven—preparing for the wedding of The Lamb (Revelation 19:9). Then the raptured church, immediately following the marriage supper of the Lamb, will mount up on horses with Christ to be a part of the victorious battle of Armageddon.

Are there further proofs that the church was raptured in Revelation, chapter four? The answer is yes! You can find several proofs in chapter 4:1-4 and 5:8-10. You will also find where the elders—the raptured church—continued in praises. I have written both portions of Scripture for you, the reader.

The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created” (Revelation 4:10-11).

“And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth” (Revelation 5: 8-10).

Only the King of kings and the redeemed wear crowns!

But hear this: The Rapture of the “church” (now elders) was a resurrection (incorruptible) and is no longer on earth. However the saints on earth still have corruptible bodies, which can be destroyed in the Tribulation! The saints then are still in their physical/carnal bodies; and most will be martyred.

You will find the elders in continuous praise of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ through the book of Revelation. Oftentimes the elders join in with the other angels and creatures—such as the four living creatures mentioned often in the book of Ezekiel. These creatures continually stayed by His throne in worship and praise—never out of the shadow of God Himself!

A passage of Scripture that should encourage us:

11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time” (Revelation 12:11-12).

More reasons we can believe the Pre-Trib Rapture. His church is:

· Sealed with promise at the time of salvation (Ephesians 1:13).

· Sitting with Him in heavenly places right now (Ephesians 1:13; 1:20; 2:16; 3:10).

· Espoused (betrothed; engaged) to Him forever (2 Corinthians 11:2).

· Not appointed to wrath; but to obtain salvation (2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 4:30; 1 Thessalonians 5:9).

· To comfort one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians. 4:18; 2 Thessalonians 2:17).

· A chosen generation, a royal Priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light” (1 Peter 2:9).

· Adopted of children by Jesus Christ to Himself (Ephesians 1:5).

Who are the elders? (See Scripture references below.)

· They cannot be any heavenly or earthly entity outside of The Father, Christ, or mankind.

· In the O.T., elders represented those who ministered in and around the Tabernacle.

· In the Old Testament, elders represented leadership and ministry within the Temple.

· In the New Testament, elders represented leadership/government within the Sanhedrin.

· In the New Testament, elders worked with God’s leadership in the ministries of His church.

· The Holy Spirit led apostle Paul to ordain elders by the laying on of hands into every church.

Acts 14.22-23:

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. 23And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

1 Corinthians 7:17: “But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.”

1 Timothy 2.7-8: “Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. 8I will therefore that men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.”

Titus 1.4-5: “To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee.”

The elder will always show great leadership:

If you do not believe we are living in the day of supernatural gifts from God enabling His people to continue in healing and deliverance, prophetic ministries, Word of Knowledge, speaking in other tongues, and other ministries as delivered to the New Covenant saints on the day of Pentecost, then you most likely have never been informed about this type of revelation.

I have one question to ask you. Hopefully you will meditate just a little while before giving the answer: “Do you read and study the Words of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to learn at His feet the things closest to His heart; or do you read the Bible only to learn facts and contend for the faith?

“Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time” (Revelation 12:12).
All Scripture emphasis as added by the author.
www.christsbondservants.org

Truly, this might be THE most messed up interpretation of Revelation I have ever read. I think he (the writer) needs to start over from the beginning.

Can't even begin to talk about whether we go through the tribulation, until we recognize the LENGTH of the tribulation. How long is it?

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."-Revelation 11:3

"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."-Revelation 12:6

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
² And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
³ And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
⁴ But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
⁵ Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
⁶ And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
⁷ And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
⁸ And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
⁹ And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
¹⁰ Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
¹² Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
¹³ But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

The idea of a 7 year tribulation is only based on one actual passage from the bible.


"
²⁴ Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
²⁵ Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
²⁶ And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
²⁷ And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."-Daniel 9:24-27

Nowhere in that passage however, is the word tribulation used. The tribulation is only 3 1/2 years..NOT 7. The first 3 1/2 years are the beginning of sorrows...not the tribulation.

so, the two witnesses are in the 1st 1260 days, the woman who fled into the wilderness is the last 1260 days or the Great tribulation which add up to 7 yr...

murray, that would be right....unless

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTmZHDb_sP8

Some of their timeline makes sense.....some, maybe not. I'm not sure, I just know that the rapture happens in the middle of the final 7 years.

ooi...

luke21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

we are talking about tribulation here, we saints on this side of the rapture, looking for His appearing, are caught up and seen here...

rev7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

this is NOT trib saints, they are here, the 1st resurrection...


rev20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

the ones in the pretrib rapture include all believers, from abe to that point...

well murray, according to faithful word Baptist....you can pretty much split revelation in half at like chapter 11...and it is a repeat of events from a different viewpoint. I'm not saying I agree, i'm just pointing out that there are other ways of looking at it. I'm intending to study that theory out more too. Being all too familiar with the pre-trib position myself, it is still very difficult to come to the conclusion that we will be here during the tribulation. I still think a lot of it depends on our definitions though. It is very curious to me that people always point out that we are not appointed to wrath...but then pretty much ignore the fact that the wrath doesn't begin until after the 6th seal is unsealed.



"And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"-Revelation 6:12-17

i agree full w/ the sixth seal start to tribulation, that would have to take you backwards to the 1st rider being someone other than the antichrist, like saaay, hitler, who started the birth pangs, off on another tangent, you gotta love His word....

murray leslie wrote:

i agree full w/ the sixth seal start to tribulation, that would have to take you backwards to the 1st rider being someone other than the antichrist, like saaay, hitler, who started the birth pangs, off on another tangent, you gotta love His word....

Or, saaay this guy? Keeping in mind the AC and FP don't show until the 4th seal.




Wow! Things sure have changed since then.

there is only 1 interpretation in the bible, the literal 1, God is not the author of confusion...

rev22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

o would like to be the antichrist, but is just a fairy princess...

you miss all the understanding if you don't understand the feast days. Until you study them out, in depth, everything will continue to be a muddled mess.

lets see, Christ fulfilled the spring feasts to the letter, assuming he does the same w/ fall feasts, we have till fall 2017 (rosh hashanah)
to be raptured for that is the last in the last generation which saw Israel become a nation, that holyday occures on 1 of two days, thus we dont know the day or hour, but must witness the crescent of the new moon, i think whenever damasskiss goes down, the following rosh hashanah we go by by, could be wrong, God knows...

I was thinking along those lines too, but now I am leaning towards 2033. We see the blood moon tetrads starting this year through 2016 (See Mark Biltz). BUT WE ALSO SEE this same grouping finalizing in 2033. The tribulation as we have dubbed it is known in the scriptures as the time of Jacob's trouble. Using scripture to interpret scripture Jacob's trouble lasted 20yrs. that fits perfectly with starting this year and completing in 2033. There is also this diddy "A thousand years are as a day unto to Yahweh."

That's a math problem. 24hrs = 1000yrs...if you break that down then 20.83yrs (earth) is a half-hour (heaven.) In Revelation it says there was silence in heaven for 'about the space of one-half hour."...Could it be there is silence in heaven because Satan was cast to the earth? As we have been saying...There's something afoot....

I think that's Rob Skiba's take on it as well. I haven't bought into that view just yet, but as I only see through a glass darkly I haven't completely discounted it either. I wish that Mr. Skiba would expand on his views of this. It needs a lot of explaining and clarification, at least for me anyway. Also Revelation speaks of the kings of the earth having power with the beast for ONE HOUR and using the math given that would equal 41.66 years. (20.83 X 2) I figured these two numbers out a long time ago on my own and even mentioned them on the old OLD boardzero forum back then. Nobody could figure out what I was even talking about. I think it was on one of the threads that Garvrial started.

I think the key to that is "of the earth"...Location is everything. An hour in the earth. I am with you in that I am not 'planting' my foot anywhere per se. However, I am digging deeply into the topic of time as we speak. For the first time I believe I have a topic I want to devote to a book. Of course it was thanks to people like David Flynn and of late Douglas Hamp, Rob Skiba and LA Marzulli that have all contributed to me arriving at some startling conclusions and understandings. Should this 'book' ever see the light of day I will let it be known here first that it's ready! could take 7 months or could take a year. Then again it may never see the light of day for the times we are in, but I pray that I can complete it.

Romans 11 v 25 "For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
that is when the rapture will happen.....

its way closer than you think...

Oh man.....2033? No way. We are way closer. I'm a mid-trib/post-trib pre-wrath person. How long do we really have? I think by the end of 2015....we'll be seeing some crazy things. The scary part?

I believe America is mystery Babylon. I see the only literal fulfillment being in America, and that is the only real, sustainable, physical, possibility. We already fulfill every part of the prophecies up to the point of the destruction ....EXCEPT:

"And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."-Revelation 17:6

This part....I believe is fulfilled immediately before her destruction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klqv9t1zVww

2033? I'll be almost 70.

2033 i'll be dead, where is the fun in that?