Cardinal Parolin, Vatican Secretary Of State, At the Elite Bilderberg Meeting (this bugs me to no end)

Make of this what you might. This makes my skin crawl. Then again EVERYTHING Bilderberg related makes my skin crawl.
 
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/analysis-cardinal-parolin-at-the-elite-bilderberg-meeting-55996
 

catholicnewsagency wrote:

Vatican City, Jun 6, 2018 / 04:26 pm (CNA).- Cardinal Pietro Parolin, Vatican Secretary of State, will take part in the Bilderberg Conference, an annual private gathering of global political, business and media leaders, set to take place this year in Turin, Italy, June 7 – 10.
 
Cardinal Parolin’s name is included in the list of 131 participants in this year’s Bilderberg meeting.

 
Now have a look at the official Bilderberg press release. Don’t those topics make you go all warm and fuzzy inside? And just what exactly is a post truth world? (see #11)
 
http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/press-release.html
 

bilderbergmeetings wrote:

TURIN, 5 JUNE 2018 –The 66^th Bilderberg Meeting is set to take place from 7 - 10 June 2018 in Turin, Italy. As of today, 131 participants from 23 countries have confirmed their attendance. As ever, a diverse group of political leaders and experts from industry, finance, academia and the media has been invited. The list of participants is available on www.bilderbergmeetings.org.


The key topics for discussion this year include:

1. Populism in Europe
   
2. The inequality challenge
   
3. The future of work
   
4. Artificial intelligence
   
5. The US before midterms
   
6. Free trade
   
7. US world leadership
   
8. Russia
   
9. Quantum computing
   
10. Saudi Arabia and Iran
    
11. The “post-truth” world ← WHAT THE F--- DOES THIS MEAN ?!?!
    
12. Current events
    

If the Vatican is involved then I'd say it's worse than bad! Dare I say maybe even prophetic? More at both links.

i doubt that it bugs you as much as it does me...why don't people see the vatican for what ,and who, it is?.....they are a nation state/religionist institution.....when they move the vatican to jerusalem, reckon people will finally catch on?....why hell no....i am having serious reservations about the US embassy being there,after thinking about it.  Trump is from a jesuit school, so he has a catholic background,and  the charismatics/pentecostals (pence)don't know any better and think that universalism/catholicism is Christian, and its no secret that the romanists want jerusalem under control of the pope, if it isn't already(or vice versa)....i am very suspicious of everything, right now, and i mean everything

researcher, just a yes or no reply for now....have you ever noticed and wondered about why it looks like there are two entities in the OT appearing to be God?

Michael371 wrote:

researcher, just a yes or no reply for now....have you ever noticed and wondered about why it looks like there are two entities in the OT appearing to be God?

Yes! And also in the New testament as well.

Michael371 wrote:

i am having serious reservations about the US embassy being there,after thinking about it.

You and me both, Mike. If plans EVER appear for the USA to fund, approve of, or help in any way the temple being built then - IT'S KATY BAR THE DOOR TIME! An astute person will know where I'm going with this.

Yep, ... I went to the little local  Medth church with my sis and her family- because the kids (adults) were home visiting this past week. The pastor started speaking and became almost seething"ly"  angry... when he spoke about  how people were "talking bad" about the pope not being christian... His voice started squeaking .. I could clearly see the deception moving in.. sorta surreal ... I'm glad my eyes are open !

judy, the methodist church came out of the catholic church, via the church of england, or the anglican church in the mid 1700's....it was started by two brothers,john and charles wesley.....charles was the better bible scholar, although john gets most of the credit....the methodist church at that time, looks nothing like this harlot bastard of today,based on works and operated like a masonic temple....it is works based,as is the name methodist shows....."ist" means one who follows and method is obvious...so a methodist is "one who follows methods".....or works, just like their whore mama in rome....now, the anglicans of england had some great preachers of that era and into the late 1800's....so, i don't criticize them like i do the others.....the methodists of today are a mess....women pastors, homosexual pastors, works based doctrine with a globalist agenda....i have a book that traces all denominations down through history, and when i get time, i'll pull it out and send it to you.....from memory, all denominations except the baptist,menonites,amish,7th day adventists(didn't know they had a legit history,ditcha?) and few more that escape me, came from catholicism...thats does not include the obvious cults like jws,mormons,etc....it is said in a letter that john wesley  wrote before he died, that he had doubts that God existed at all...personally, in todays time, i'd go to a beer joint before i would go to a methodist church

okay researcher, i have never considered the duality thing before until i listened to derek broes....in no way, am i endorsing him, but its not just him...i am enjoying looking at this, and i can see the evidence that might make one look it like him and others do.....i have never had a problem with the OT having a veil over it, because i can justify and align it with the NT, because the OT theme is "Christ hidden" and the NT is Christ revealed"....this is interesting

I agree with you Mike. Their "Apostle's Creed" really disturbs me. I'm thinking even special occasions  for my sis, are just too much for me to bear a visit there.
 I feel much at home though with Charles Lawson and  much prefer his sermons and to download them  on my computer.  Folks that haven't heard this simple ( one of us)  man,  need to give him a try. Completely different world from the before mentioned.

post-truth. a time period or situation in which facts have become less important than emotional persuasion.



i don't see duality in the old testament or even in the old and new testament together. The same yesterday, today, and tomorrow is what i see. Stable, consistent, dependable. What are you seeing??

i listened to a few of Derek Broes videos and it appears that he may have come out of some gnostic-type belief system which he tends to conflate with the bible. He really should pick one or the other IMO. In one of his videos he said he likes to wear black because black takes in all the colors but if you think about it, black takes in all the colors and gives nothing back. No beauty.

in no way am i endorsing these guys or their belief system, i AM saying that they have a BASIS for that belief system, although, as best as i can tell, it involves serious error, not heresy as i first thought....heresy is a doctrine or belief that has no scriptural basis, such as baptismal regeneration, transubstantiation and the obvious stuff that you are familiar with, error is simply misinterpreting the scriptures....now, error can lead to heresy if it not kept in check...i see this in all the various baptist churches around here....error is honest ignorance, heresy is deliberate

if you read the creation carefully, and i mean bite it off, chew on it until the taste is gone, and spit it back out and start over, you will see evidence of a dual creation that is ignored in most teachings of the creation story....there is no harm in searching for the truth, as long as you start with no agenda, only an honest search and desire for the truth....my search started with the 8 th chapter of romans and that is why i can grasp some things that universalists miss...i see why broes says certain things, i just wish that he would use different terminology....other stuff, he is just full of *hit and dangerous...i noticed the lean toward gnosticism ,also.....it is there, no doubt, and mixed in with truth.....kinda' like our damned government operates..... a little leaven/bread= ruins the whole loaf....thats why the word "discernment" is so important.....also "caution"

michael371 wrote:

if you read the creation carefully, and i mean bite it off, chew on it until the taste is gone, and spit it back out and start over, you will see evidence of a dual creation that is ignored in most teachings of the creation story ...

Thanks for clearing that up. i agree that there is a mystery at the beginning of Genesis that requires closer examination. However ...

michael371 wrote:

researcher, just a yes or no reply for now....have you ever noticed and wondered about why it looks like there are two entities in the OT appearing to be God?

i don't see two entities appearing to be God.

michael371 wrote:

...why don't people see the vatican for what ,and who, it is?.....they are a nation state/religionist institution...

The pope wears two hats. One as the head of the Catholic church and one as the head of Rome. Seriously, he has two jobs. The head of Rome is "Corporation Sole" which means all corporations answer to him. i wonder if that has anything to do with our footprints (soles) on the birth certificates with the ALL CAPS NAMES ... something else to ponder ... because, yes Dorothy, we're ALL CATHOLIC whether it's your intention to be or not.

Well, where do you see that and how do you come to that conclusion?

look, you are misreading this, jem....where did i say i had a conclusion?....reading comprehension, please....i asked researcher a ? to see if he was seeing something that i had not noticed....it is a POSSIBILITY, not a fact.....doing honest research requires that one suspends any beliefs or prejudices already acquired in order to do a fair assessment.....i do not believe the God of the OT is satan, but there is an appearance at times, that it might be possible.....sooooo, ima' gonna' take a looksee...mathmatics, true science and accurate history do not conflict with the bible when the bible is taken in context, with proper interpretation....they prove it, with the bible being the final authority....i do not expect to change my position, but i am going to look....just because one believes something does not make it true, so i always look into an issue, even if i have serious doubts....Christ very plainly called satan "the God of this world", and the "i will be LIKE the Most High" needs to be considered....LIKE means similar, not an exact copy, but similar to.....this is why i am interested

jem, this is going to take time due to the corruption of the masoretic text....there is no way to be 100% sure,even using the septuagint like i do now....if YHWH is an office, then this is entirely possible....if YHWH is a name, then it is not possible....all of this will take time and i am in gardening season in the morning and a state of exhaustion in the afternoon....if researcher want s to explain, he can jump right in, but this is not even close to a "conclusion"....this is a looksee

Michael371 wrote:

please....i asked researcher a ? to see if he was seeing something that i had not noticed....it is a POSSIBILITY, not a fact

mathmatics, true science and accurate history do not conflict with the bible when the bible is taken in context, with proper interpretation....they prove it, with the bible being the final authority

Christ very plainly called satan "the God of this world", and the "i will be LIKE the Most High" needs to be considered....LIKE means similar, not an exact copy, but similar to.....this is why i am interested

I was getting my answer together when Mike posted the above. He kinda said pretty much what I was thinking of saying only I was going to add a few things from the Psalms and Mike Heiser about the Divine Counsel being called gods (little g). See below.

Definition wrote:

Divine Council
A Divine Council is an assembly of deities over which a higher-level god presides.

Examples of other gods (little g) below.

Psalm 82:1 wrote:

God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment.

The following can be seen on pages 1 & 3-4 of the PDF linked below:
http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DivineCouncilLBD.pdf

Michael Heiser wrote:

DIVINE COUNCIL
A term used by Hebrew Bible scholars for the heavenly host, the assembly of divine
beings who administer the affairs of the cosmos under Yahweh, the God of Israel. All ancient
Mediterranean cultures had some conception of a divine council, including Israe
l. However, Israelite
religion’s divine council was distinct. The structure of the Israelite divine council has implications for
understanding God and the unseen world in biblical theology.

[pages 3 & 4]

while orthodox Yahwism could not accommodate cosmic rule being shared by two separate and distinct
deities (El and Baal) it could tolerate Yahweh in two personages.

i forgot all about that book....that book helped resolve the trinity, to large degree, for me.....it was the best explanation, although not complete( because a complete explanation is not possible), that i had ever heard....the words of Christ take on a somewhat clearer meaning....

don't panic, jem, we are not pulling a Marcion and going off on a tangent into heresy,lol, we just want the truth.... a lot of folks, if proven wrong, will just keep digging the hole deeper(see liberal demo-rats) but i am not like that....show me where i am wrong, i'll change....you just have to prove it with credible evidence, not some "ism" or denominational curriculum or agenda....i been going down rabbit holes for over 4 decades, so this one is mild compared to most

michael371 wrote:

look, you are misreading this, jem....where did i say i had a conclusion?

michael371 wrote:

so? researcher and i do....

michael371 wrote:

reading comprehension, please....

My comprehension is fine.

michael371 wrote:

i asked researcher a ? to see if he was seeing something that i had not noticed....it is a POSSIBILITY, not a fact.....doing honest research requires that one suspends any beliefs or prejudices already acquired in order to do a fair assessment.....i do not believe the God of the OT is satan, but there is an appearance at times, that it might be possible.....

You’re saying you want to make sure God isn’t Satan. Good idea to check into that. i know from reading mythology that there appears to have been an earthly someone named Yaweh and there was an “Amen”-Ra. i’d like to dig into that further myself to get a better definition of who they were and what they stood for.

michael371 wrote:

sooooo, ima' gonna' take a looksee...mathmatics, true science and accurate history do not conflict with the bible when the bible is taken in context, with proper interpretation....they prove it, with the bible being the final authority....i do not expect to change my position, but i am going to look....just because one believes something does not make it true, so i always look into an issue, even if i have serious doubts....Christ very plainly called satan "the God of this world", and the "i will be LIKE the Most High" needs to be considered....LIKE means similar, not an exact copy, but similar to.....this is why i am interested

You want to make sure which one is being spoken of at each particular time to make sure the teachings we have aren't misconstrued.

michael371 wrote:

jem, this is going to take time due to the corruption of the masoretic text....there is no way to be 100% sure,even using the septuagint like i do now....if YHWH is an office, then this is entirely possible....if YHWH is a name, then it is not possible....all of this will take time and i am in gardening season in the morning and a state of exhaustion in the afternoon....if researcher want s to explain, he can jump right in, but this is not even close to a "conclusion"....this is a looksee

Okey dokey. Hope you post your findings. Maybe we should post the video(s) in question and analyze what is said. Group effort.

now, i'm back to continue and try my best to make clear what researcher and i are so cautious about....i just picked this website because it was the first one up that showed what i needed:

http://www.ushistory.org/civ/4c.asp

now, my ? is this: why is this in the hammurabi code and the Law given by God?....i understand about the true Law being corrupted and changed after the return from babyonian captivity, resulting in the talmud and the rise of judaism and the rabbinical system(pharisee/sadducee)...i now grasp the fact that the masoretic text was changed and corrupted, and that is why i use the septuagint now where the OT is concerned because all modern translations are from the masoretic text,except for the D/R catholic abomination taken from the vulgate....this quote is from the septuagint:
exodus 19;21 Thine eye shall not spare him: thou shalt exact life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.


researcher is honed in on this already, and he knows what i'ma thinking....be back later

Just thinking out loud about the 'post truth world'. Didn't the Malachi Martin prophecy of the popes say that the final pope will bring the 'church' through the (Great) Tribulation? (I can't imagine how this would look??)(not good from today's perspective.)

If we are leaning toward a pre-Armageddon Rapture, there is a time when the 'voice of the Bride and the Bridegroom will be heard no more'.

A couple verses:

Jesus is telling the disciples of the coming Holy Spirit:

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.

Paul on the Power of the Resurrection:


Romans 8:11  But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Ephesians 1: ¹⁷ that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: ¹⁸ the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, ¹⁹ and what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, ²⁰ which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead....
-------------------------
This could suggest that someone knows something more definitively than we do.  Perhaps between the Vatican Library or the Dead Sea Scrolls there is something 'more' that has been kept from the people.

Dove wrote:

-------------------------
This could suggest that someone knows something more definitively than we do.  Perhaps between the Vatican Library or the Dead Sea Scrolls there is something 'more' that has been kept from the people.

this woman is on a roll today!!...first, are you feeling better?

not only does it suggest it, i think it confirms it...many.many people believe that other scriptures have been withheld from public view...it would not be the first time that harlot has withheld scripture and i have heard many claims that they are doing it now...neither do i doubt that the rabbinical,talmadic jews are doing the same

now consider this:look at the sacrifice of issac....read and think....dove hit on something in the post with ephesians 1:17...notice that it said  that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, like there might have been a difference?

I'm better, Mike.  Thank you.    (Even betterer would be good too, but no complaining.) 

do you see,yet?.....paul was a self described "pharisee of the pharisees"....a legalistic jew to the core...an accomplice to murder....he had the talmudic law tattooed on his butt....why didn't he say something like "the God of our fathers" or" the God of ole abe,izy and jay?"...he specifically said "the God of Jesus Christ"....am i seeing too much?

Not too much for me.  Paul instantly became 'a new creature in Christ'.

Wait...I see you're saying something more....you're thinking back to some things
you said earlier....don't know as I can put it all together.

But as Abraham pleased God BY FAITH (and subsequent obedience), and the Son pleased God by His faith (and subsequent obedience), there may not be the descrepancy you're thinking of.

I have to ponder the other things you've said recently.  Or you could continue to elaborate.

Quote :

Not too much for me.

lets see if you are caching my drift, as i sit here with my butt firmly planted so as to not mis-speak and be deemed a heretic....dove, does it seem like paul is addressing a different God here when he says "God of Jesus Christ?"...like maybe a different one than when he was a legalistic jew?....i'm not looking at it spiritually, i'm wanting you to hold to the meat and potatoes right now and look at it like i am.....Does it not look like he to you?...he did not say"YHWH"or G_D or any of the OT verbiage....he said specifically the God of Jesus Christ...

I believe the OT God and the God of Jesus Christ to be one and the same....i just suspect that the enemy,the nachash,the devil swooped in after the babylonian captivity and became their god like he had been trying since the garden....I am not saying that satan is God,lol, but i am saying that i think that he is the god of the jews ...The regathering of IS-RA-EL does not fit the narrative of the bible....God said that >>>HE<<< would do it, and not by the balfour declaration orchestrated by the damned rothchilds...i am not saying that He didn't do it that way, i just have strong doubts, and there are so many passages of scripture pointing out that jews are believers and there is no difference in the jews and "greeks"*...why was greek used instead of gentile?...always wondered that....what was Jesus/Yeshua saving us from?.....hell?....sure, but maybe something more...maybe falling for the wrong God?....i'm asking

Sounds plausible michael371, Jesus was forever saying to the leaders "You are of your father the devil" and they did not like it, but maybe the people in general did not know what Jesus was talking about because as most people in general do, they assumed Jesus was only talking to the leaders,
so, to make sure the Jews, any Jews, knew who Paul was talking about, he said, God of Jesus Christ"?

yeah, yaddy...where is researcher when you really need him?....i'll bet he is out with his surfboard catching a wave i order to get a bath since his loon for a governor cut his water usage down to a quart a day....all of these cabalist getting suicided?....californians ought to suicide moonbeam and moonbat maxine

Michael371 wrote:

where is researcher when you really need him?

Researcher has been "biting his tongue" the past few days because researcher would sound like a heretic if researcher said what researcher really wanted to say all along. But since Mike sorta, kinda started pointing to it (see below quote) I guess I'll just come out with it.

Michael371 wrote:

Lets see if you are caching my drift, as i sit here with my butt firmly planted so as to not mis-speak and be deemed a heretic....dove, does it seem like paul is addressing a different God here when he says "God of Jesus Christ?"...like maybe a different one than when he was a legalistic jew?....i'm not looking at it spiritually, i'm wanting you to hold to the meat and potatoes right now and look at it like i am.....Does it not look like he to you?...he did not say"YHWH"or G_D or any of the OT verbiage....he said specifically the God of Jesus Christ...

OK, here goes . . . . find me ONE, just ONE example of anytime Yeshua, Paul, Peter, or anybody else in the new testament calls YHVH (Yahweh) God and/or Father. Just one! I've been swallowing this for days.

Ho boy . . . . I have my asbestos underwear on so flame away.

And KUDOS to Yaddy for seeing it and picking up the thought. You rock, girl!

thank you, mr surferboy!!!....i strongly suspect,as lovely-dovey said, we don't have the full story...see the ****ing vatican had all the new testament documents during the dark ages....if i remember correctly, the waldenees had two copies that they kept hidden and away from the reprobate papacy....those two collections of manuscripts had the books now known as the apocrypha which were removed in the mid-1800's from the modern editions.....why?..."oh, they were error-filled, non-canonical books that were not inspired by God".....i wonder if many folks ever actually read them?....or did they dump them because they revealed something?...i've read them, a couple of times, but i read them under the mindset of a traditionalist baptist, which is actually a pretty good way to read anything for doctrine but not for connecting dots for truth, and i remember a few things that didn't make sense then, but it does now( i think i remember correctly)...1st and 2nd macabees are 100% historically accurate....see, there are many other books mentioned in the bible that ain't in there and i'll do a DDG search for the passages....one of ya'll posted videos months ago by ken johnson on the book of gad the seer, and i looked all of that up then, and POSSIBLY,P-O-S-S-I-B-L-Y found the book of jubilees mentioned....oh, i use the book of enoch as scripture, just as much as i do genesis or daniel or any others, and researcher, i first saw the sameness in enochs God and the God of the NT...it is after daniels time that i question

Lots to see here. I've posted these books here before but for anyone who hasn't yet downloaded these I'll post 'em again.

R.H. Charles Apocrypha Volume #01
http://www.mediafire.com/file/1gpwh8uthbpek8w/R.H._Charles_-_Vol._1-Apocrypha.pdf/file

R. H. Charles Pseudepigrapha Volume #02
http://www.mediafire.com/file/8jfe58t0in9nz2i/R.H._Charles_-_Vol._2-Pseudepigrapha.pdf/file

Table of Contents wrote:

Volume I—The Apocrypha of the Old Testament

Introduction

• General Introduction
  
• Addenda et Corrigenda
  

Historical Books:

• 1 Esdras
  
• 1 Maccabees
  
• 2 Maccabees
  
• 3 Maccabees
  

Quasi-Historical Books Written with a Moral Purpose

• Tobit
  
• Judith
  

Wisdom Literature

• Sirach
  
• Wisdom of Solomon
  

Additions to and Completions of the Canonical Books

• 1 Baruch
  
• Epistle of Jeremy
  
• Prayer of Manasses
  

Additions to Daniel

• Prayer of Azariah and Song of the Three Children
  
• Susanna
  
• Prayer of Manasses
  

Additions to Esther

Volume II—The Apocrypha of the Old Testament

Introduction

• General Introduction
  
• Addenda et Corrigenda
  

Primitive History Rewritten from the Standpoint of the Law

• The Book of Jubilees
  

Sacred Legends

• The Letter of Aristeas
  
• The Books of Adam and Eve
  
• The Martyrdom of Isaiah
  

Apocalypses

• 1 Enoch
  
• The Testaments of the 12 Patriarchs
  
• The Sibylline Oracles
  
• The Assumption of Moses
  
• 2 Enoch, or the Book of the Secrets of Enoch
  
• 2 Baruch, or the Syriac Apocalypse of Baruch
  
• 3 Baruch, or the Greek Apocalypse of Baruch
  
• 4 Ezra
  

Psalms

• The Psalms of Solomon
  

Ethics and Wisdom Literature

• The Psalms of Solomon
  
• 4 Maccabees
  
• Pirke Aboth
  
• The Story of Ahikar
  

History

• The Fragments of a Zadokite Work
  

Or if you have money to burn these download copies below can be had for a hefty price. Mine are free.

michael371 wrote:

i just suspect that the enemy,the nachash,the devil swooped in after the babylonian captivity and became their god like he had been trying since the garden....

That’s true, quite some time after the return (there’s history on this, when the priesthood began to be not of Levi) because they started off quite right (Nehemiah). Like Yaddy said. Even Yeshua said so, “like your father the devil” (John 8:44-45). i believe he was only speaking of the priesthood.

michael371 wrote:

The regathering of IS-RA-EL does not fit the narrative of the bible....

i would love to get into IS-RA-EL.

michael371 wrote:

what was Jesus/Yeshua saving us from?.....

Divorcement. He was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel. (Matt 15:24, Matt 10:6) See also Jeremiah 50:5-7.

“In those days and at that time (when Babylon falls), declares the LORD, the children of Israel and the children of Judah will come together, weeping as they come, and will seek the LORD their God. They will ask the way to Zion and turn their faces toward it. They will come and join themselves to the LORD in an everlasting covenant that will never be forgotten. My people are lost sheep; their shepherds have led them astray, causing them to roam the mountains. They have wandered from mountain to hill; they have forgotten their resting place.

Think Ezekiel 37.

michael371 wrote:

there is no difference in the jews and "greeks"*...why was greek used instead of gentile?

Good question. i don’t know the answer but some research i did makes me believe that the male line (Y-chromosome) of Jews is not haplogroup J as so many who say they are Jews are. J is for Japheth, father of the Greeks (and more).

Who else besides Jacob might have a claim upon Mt. Zion? Esau (probably Spain and Rome) who gave up his birthright? Melchizedek? Adonizedek (Odin?)? Jebus (Egyptian Geb?)? Jebusites?

We had a member once upon a time who had been an MP (military police).  She had been in Germany for a time.  She was in church there one Sunday morning and asked God what she should call Him, and He said to her, "call Me Yah". 
Delfi and I argued with her often...she had a habit of calling out others for what she saw as apparent lack of faith, but I felt her report above was genuine.  (I've remembered it all this time.)  Just saying...

And green for Ms. Yaddy.

never knew yaddy was a girl

now, thought i'd pop in again with more ideas of confusion....let me jump back to old JOB in reference to what researcher said, and again, what i write here is to think about, and does not necessarily mean that it is part of my belief system...without a doubt, i am the most conservative one of the group, but i do like to go down rabbitholes and jump off of low altitude cliffs (so i can climb back up easily).....this passage of scripture has always been somewhat of a mystery to me....most likely, my baptist upbringing provided the proper explanation, but i just ain't quite satisfied, and in light of this discussion, lets see if ya'll can see why i am fixated on it.

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
2And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
3And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
now, this is mikes view, and it may not be the correct one, but its the only one that makes sense when i try to tie all scripture together....it appears that there are some definite articles of engagement between God and Satan....articles that limit GOD and empower the devil....like this:  >although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.<
i see a similar situation in the abraham/issac scene,too....??????

It could take some research to define the rules God established between Himself and satan, but there are constraints on satan.

I see a difference between Job and Abraham.  As God bragged on Job, satan said, oh sure He worships You.  You've blessed him greatly and put a hedge (of protection) around him. Then satan said, let me at him and we'll see if he stays faithful.  So God did.  And Job did, without any knowledge of what was happening or why.

Abraham, on the other hand, already had God's Word about being the father of many nations, and of bearing a son who would be his heir of the Promise.

What fascinates me is the suggestion of the power of man in this great equation.  It suggests that Abraham's obedience to God's instructions ALLOWED God to Himself send the Savior into the world.

Matthew 18:18   Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
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This is taking me back to the early days of the '2nd' watcher forum, when we debated faith vs works ad infinitum.
Maybe if we'd just said "Faith without Fruit", "Faith without evidence of the workings of the Holy Spirit" would have cut it all short.  Because Faith opens the Door, but 'obedience' is the essential evidence.

I'm quite sure the word 'maybe' does not exist in the Kingdom.    Stupid word...!

under no circumstances do i endorse david icke for anything concerning our faith, so let me make that very clear, but damned if he don't do a better job than the hugest majority of preachers in the pulpits today explaining biblical history( up to a point)...lol, i listen to david a lot more than i care to admit, but its pretty easy to take what he says and put it in a biblical perspective....this video is especially interesting because he has a picture of a scene that i have never seen before....it is inside the vatican showing the risen reptilian christ, i kid you not, along with the pope and his hierarchy of bishops or whatever....shocking to look at.....if you don't want to watch the whole thing, that pic is at or around the 45 minute mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFas8-SKXTQ