scarz, a ? for you

its apparent that you and i have very similar understanding of most thing bible related, and have went down a bunch of the same rabbit holes....it is also apparent that you have a pretty high IQ and a keen ability to use reason and logic to reach a conclusion, or theory....now, i love it that you love the OT and understand that it is all about Christ,albeit hidden and disguised....so, if i have kissed your ass enough i need you to answer a question for me, and the question is: have you ran across any reference in the extra-biblical manuscripts, or do you any info as to the urim and thummim?....i consider that to be the biggest mystery of the OT.....you ask 5 people what those objects are or what they mean, you get 5 different answers......even the jewish encyclopedia gives various answers and theories,as do rabbi's....from "determining Gods will" to determing judgement" and "perfecting the light" and more......it seems sorta' like an oracle situation....whadda' you think?

Michael.....To my knowledge I never remember any references in extra-biblical text. I'm like you many different answers.

This got me thinking of a deep dream I had a few years ago that I've never forgotten. I've had what I call Deep Dreams all my life. They may come one in several years or two or three within a month or two. Up until one night ago it had been two or three years since my last deep dream. They are much different than just dreaming.




I was walking along a rural road and I met a man coming from the opposite direction. I never even had an opportunity to speak to him before he said......."Elijah is waiting for you."


I ask the man where I could find Elijah and he pointed on down the road I was on. I never said anything more to the man and began walking straight ahead. I walked a good distance down the road which had a few twist and one deep curve before I noticed a man standing off the road near a huge rock.


I walked straight up to him and ask him if he was Elijah. He then spoke to me and said that he was Elijah and he had been waiting for me. In the dream I then knew this was Elijah the prophet. There was no doubting who he was and the dream made that perfectly clear to me.


I then ask Elijah why he was waiting for me. Elijah then pulled out some beautiful stones from a pocket in his white robe and held them in both of his hands for me to see.


He never ask me to touch them or take them from his extended hands. Elijah only wanted me to look at them. They were the most beautiful jewels I had ever seen with my eyes. They glowed so brightly they looked like rainbow colored stones of fire.


The dream then ended as I lay on my back staring at the ceiling.
As soon as I had awaken from the dream I remembered the stones in the Book of Revelation.




Revelation 21:19-20


And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

those two stones(jewels or whatever) represent something that is spiritual in nature....i know of nothing that gives an reference or any indication of what that is....it seems that all anyone has is an educated guess....knowing the OT is really the NT in a concealed form, i guess it is veiled hint of Christ of some kind, but i can't connect the dots in way that is based on honesty....those two stones provided a way to "communicate" with God and in the NT we are told that the only way we can approach God is in "Spirit and in Truth" which is clearly speaking of through Christ.....legwork ain't figuring this one out, and i figured you might have spent time on this one and maybe had some idea.....thats my guess and it seems to be as good as scholars and rabbi's since they don't know for sure either