Those That Hate The Rapture also Reject Many Other Beautiful Prophecies

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The two great doctrines that hold together the prophecies of the Holy Bible are the Pre-Tribulation Rapture and the Great Tribulation of Seven Years.

Deny or disregard these two truths and prophecy falls apart. The Book of Revelation must be reduced to a bunch of non-sensical symbols or else removed from the Bible. Israel becomes an unimportant problem and the antiChrist a shadow of the night. We end up with the idea that anything prophesied in Scripture is a lot of foolish talk that nobody pays much attention to. It all becomes a lot of nonsense to argue about.

At the same time, keep the great hope of the Rapture in its proper place, followed by the Great Judgment of this universe, and the beautiful puzzle becomes a mosaic of Biblical perfection. Every book in the Bible fits the picture and helps paint the future with excitement. You cannot blame the devil for trying to destroy these truths because he is the ultimate loser. We owe to our generation the message of hope and the absolute assurance that this confusion against the truth is wrong.

The future is as bright as the sunburst on Resurrection morning.

Let’s look at six great truths which suffer death when the Rapture and the Great Tribulation are denied. (Part Two of this article will list six more). When you see what the loss of the two main doctrines of prophecy does to the rest of the Bible, you will receive a wake-up call. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture and the Seven Years of Judgment are the bedrock of our future.

1. The first heart break that is suffered is the future of Israel. The Bible is filled with prophecies that place Israel in their homeland when “Jacob’s Trouble” begins its course. This is where the stubborn will of the Jews is broken. Israel is converted at the end of the “Great Tribulation” which Jesus witnessed of in St. Matthew chapter twenty-four. Their future is ultimately tied to the fullness of judgment that the seven dark years represent. The antiChrist in the Jewish temple at the halfway mark of God’s judgment is an absolute part of the Holy Scripture. Anti-Semitism falls on its face when we preach the Pre-Tribulation Rapture and the Great Tribulation. Watch for a full article covering just this one very important point concerning Israel’s future.

2. The Book of Revelation is God’s perfect outline for end-times prophecy. The Holy Spirit spoke in eloquent terms when He stated: “Write the things… which shall be hereafter.” (Revelation 1:19 a & c) The saints of God are not called saints after Revelation four but elders around the Father’s throne. It is impossible to open the seals of chapter six of Revelation without the removal of the Bride of Christ to a heavenly triumph. The Seven Years of Tribulation is the primary message of the Book of Revelation. Every false doctrine in the prophetic sphere is duty bound to pounce on the literalness of this closing Biblical revelation.

3. Satan’s antiChrist spirit was already creating havoc in the early church and his shadow is seen throughout church history. Apostle Paul was careful to show the powers of the Holy Spirit holding his attack in check until the end. These words leave no doubt that this spirit of antiChrist is the devil and his false Christ that must appear in person: “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.” (II Thessalonians 2: 8-9) If there is one truth the devil hates, it is the exposing of this dark person that he wants to hide until he appears.

4. Nothing in our future is more exciting than the glorious saints returning with Christ at the Battle of Armageddon.This great company of His saints is clearly from the Old and New Testament. The Spirit said, “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war… And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.” (Revelation 19: 11; 14) These saints are returning from heaven to reign on earth a thousand years. When did they ascend in glorified bodies ready to come back again as His army? If someone denies the Rapture before the Great Tribulation judgment, this entire scene is impossible. The Battle of Armageddon becomes a single event where Christ returns with His Bride and His angels.

5. There are several incredible things that happen during the Seven Years of the Great Tribulation. All of them are denied if you deny the Seven Year period itself. One of the most fascinating events is the two witnesses preaching for three and one half years. “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.” (Revelation 11:3-5) The antiChrist is clearly reigning over the world as the testimony of Christ is proclaimed. These two prophets are invincible until they finish their ministry. After the Beast finally succeeds in killing them, his problems are multiplied by their visible resurrection and rapture up to heaven. What a miraculous victory the false teachers of Post-millennialism and Dominion Theology are refuting.

6. The seven-sealed book in the Father’s hand in Revelation five is one of the greatest scenes of the whole Bible. This seven-sealed scroll is recorded in this ancient passage by the Holy Ghost and preserved in the very archives of heaven. The earth was sold by Adam and Eve and could not be redeemed until the next of kin to God Himself had earned the right to do so. The scene in this explosive chapter of Revelation becomes completely destroyed without the saints in attendance and the process of judgment ready to begin. It is in God’s prophetic plan to redeem this earth and His saints must be with Him because He said we are His witnesses to the developing end times.

This is only the beginning of the great truths our modern church world would deny. I will continue to name these truths in Part Two of this article. The prophecy writers and God-called ministers must take a stand against the many doctrines and enemies of the truth who are attacking the Rapture and the antiChrist’s appearance after the Rapture. These people are causing a multitude to be lost for eternity. Pray for me as I write these truths under the anointing of the Holy Ghost.

Joseph R. Chambers

Joseph R Chambers needs a good swift kick in the @$$ for writing crapola like this.

Soooooo, because I don't buy into the PRE-tribulation rapture myth (yes I said MYTH) I now, by his own words, "hate the rapture". I'd like to take this trouble maker and all the others like him by the shirt collar and shake some sense into them. They are DELIBERATELY causing dissent and splits in the body of Yeshua.

SHAME ON HIM!!!!

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researcher wrote:: Joseph R Chambers needs a good swift kick in the @$$ for writing crapola like this.

Soooooo, because I don't buy into the PRE-tribulation rapture myth (yes I said MYTH) I now, by his own words, "hate the rapture". I'd like to take this trouble maker and all the others like him by the shirt collar and shake some sense into them. They are DELIBERATELY causing dissent and splits in the body of Yeshua.

SHAME ON HIM!!!!

Not only dissent and splits in the body, but mass deception as well.

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You know, I look at this Pre-trib Rap theory and I just get angry. I hope all people that inadvertently suppose themselves as teachers, and not realizing they've become teachers, when they teach this doctrine pay the penalty. In the since that, these ''masters'' are judged more strictly as ''masters'' for this pre-trib rapture teaching. And that is what I pray. That God will give them their full measure of condemnation for this.

James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

Guest

As I stated in a previous post, I too, decades ago, used to teach the pre-trib doctrine. I merely read the books of others, went to the scriptures they cited to see that they were there and, whammo, I was convinced.

Later, as I studied it in-depth myself, I found that EVERY argument they make is without merit, twisted scripture, here a verse - there a verse - and taken out of context and twisted beyond belief.

And my brother is so correct - saying just because we don't believe (by study) on the timing of the rapture, are we enemies of God and His Christ? I had one brother nearly say that I didn't look forward to His coming because I was living after my own lusts. What? Again, they take a verse (2nd Peter 3:3-4), take it out of context and put it on blood-bought believers who try to teach them truth. In fact, Peter goes on to explain that that day though delayed, will come on the Day of the Lord and not beforehand, and an indepth study of that clearly teaches that the Day of the Lord occurs well AFTER mid-week.

None of this bothers me - and really never has. What bothers me is that this foolish system is going to be a prime reason why THE falling away, the apostasia, occurs. So many whose faith depends on a magic carpet ride out of here are not equipped spiritually to face what's coming.

As I stated previously as well, the book of 2nd Thessalonians was written specifically to address this because after Paul explained that there would be some living who would not die, they were told by false brethren that the resurrection of believers had already transpired.

Thus, 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2:

Paul stated CLEARLY, WITHOUT DEBATE, that THAT day, our gathering together unto Him, will NOT occur until the apostasy comes first AND the man of lawless-
ness (antichrist) is revealed who opposes and exalts himself above every God, taking his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as God.

There - end of debate. Doesn't matter what one hopes, or how many want to believe otherwise - the Scripture is CLEAR, written by the Apostle of God to the GENTILES, the same one who gave us the rapture (gathering together) doctrine in the first place.

If people won't listen to scripture, and in turn willingly harm the body of Christ and their preparation and understanding, then they are in a very, very bad place.

Guest

Guest

Again - CAN YOU READ???

The 144,000 are NOT called from the church.

I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 sealed from every tribe
OF THE SONS OF ISRAEL (Revelation7:4).

It then lists the tribes! Are you blind? Don't put up some stupid video, read the Book!

What are you, a Jehovah's Witness, who believe only 144,000 are saved? Nutbags.

God has no problem dealing with Israel and the Church simultaneously, as He did during the first 40 years of the Church!

When the remnant OF ISRAEL are protected during the last half of the Tribulation in Petra, the antichrist then goes after the saints of God who have the testimony of Jesus - that's the church! (Revelation 12:17)

Stop it!

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I take back what I said earlier Smile

Easy, bloodwashed. Cool your jets some. There is much scripture that states that the northern tribes captured by the Assyrians would, over time, be scattered over the face of the earth and that they would even forget who they were. They are refereed to as Israel, as opposed to Judah who is now for the most part back in the geographical country of Israel. The northern tribes are still scattered to this day still not knowing of their original roots. Judah consists of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and some of the Levit's. Israel on the other hand consists of part of Levi along with the other ten northern tribes and are still scattered among the Gentiles. This is biblical. The 144K are called out from the entire earth when God opens their eyes and they realize who they are. This is going to happen right about the time of the abomination of desolation as I understand it. Mystery Babylon is just that, a mystery, one that we are just now starting to decode and to understand. The entire world is caught up in Mystery Babylon . . . and that means ALL of the tribes and the Gentiles to boot also. So yes, the 144K will be called from everywhere and if some of them are in the Churches then from there they will be called.

Yes I can read, no I am not blind, nor have we been invaded suddenly by the Jehovah's witnesses.

jem wrote:: Scripture will not sound like “a lot of foolish talk” or “nonsense” to him, or seem “anti-semitic”, and he will experience a lot less confusion while reading the scripture when he realizes that WE ARE Israel. Dude, why do you think the 144,000 are called out of the church?

Israel is in captivity in Babylon. Come out of her my people.

A beautiful message of hope. This man is telling us something that is very important. Please hear him. Scripture says that in the end days the two houses of Judah and Ephraim will come together and reunite as one. I've studied this for years and I see it happening before my very eyes. This is what the two sticks prophecy in Ezekiel 37:15-28 is all about and we are so privileged to see it start to happen this very day. Pleas see the link below for much more on this subject.

http://jewsandjoes.com/

Ezekiel 37:15-28 wrote:: 15 The word of the Lord came to me: 16 “Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, ‘Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with him.’ Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, ‘Belonging to Joseph (that is, to Ephraim) and all the Israelites associated with him.’ 17 Join them together into one stick so that they will become one in your hand.

18 “When your people ask you, ‘Won’t you tell us what you mean by this?’ 19 say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am going to take the stick of Joseph—which is in Ephraim’s hand—and of the Israelite tribes associated with him, and join it to Judah’s stick. I will make them into a single stick of wood, and they will become one in my hand.’ 20 Hold before their eyes the sticks you have written on 21 and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 23 They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding,[b] and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

24 “‘My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your ancestors lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the Lord make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.’

Guest

OK, you are right and it does no good to get upset.

What irritated me is the Apostle Paul was very plain about no boasting against Israel - God is not done with them and the Church is NOT Israel.

This has been the teaching down throughout the years that the Catholic Church has taught that has led to the slaughter of millions of jews.

Replacement theology is bankrupt, as is the theology of dispensationalism. These are the doctrines of men.

12 is the number of government in the Bible. Jesus "claims" 12,000 of each of the 12 tribes for one purpose - to govern Israel and run the Temple during the Millennial reign.

I believe it is completely without foundation to claim that God is going to take blood bought believers (his bride), where it claims that there is no jew, gentile, male or female - and then take a group of jews/israelites out of that bride and make them temple servants. That's reading way more into the text than what's there, in my opinion.

The 12 Tribes of Israel are not all Jews, only Judah, Benjamin and part of Levi are from the House of Judah, they are known as the Jews whose descendants have returned to the Modern nation of Israel. The other 10 (lost) tribes from the House of Israel are still scattered among the nations... they have lost their identity because they broke the Sabbath... the only sign they are God's people, but in the end the 144000 and their households would be called out and re-united in Israel.

Guest

Guest on this thread was formally known here as "bloodwashed" but I guess he decided to leave us. I didn't ban him but I suppose we got under his skin some.

Quote :: the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.

I love that part. Those That Hate The Rapture also Reject Many Other Beautiful Prophecies Hand-point-up-1

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Wow. Heated topic much? Everyone knows that I used to teach a pre-tribulation rapture. I wrote papers on the subject defending it. Go back on the old forums and find some of them....and analyze them. You can take them apart pretty easily by doing ONE THING. Look for any verses where an event is "read into the passage". Most "pre-trib" passages....aren't pre-trib at all. And most pre-trib persons try to pigeonhole the entire argument based on the idea of God's wrath.....and attributing EVERYTHING to being God's wrath. When you get rid of all of your personal bias....it is much easier to see that the literal truth is that while we are taken before God's wrath....the rapture is neither "imminent" or "pre-trib" as it were. This is very difficult to understand....especially because MOST people will immediately pivot to the idea that we CAN'T EXPERIENCE GOD'S WRATH. Not understanding of course, that the tribulation is NOT God's wrath(at least until the bowl judgments)....and that God has a special plan for HIS people to endure THROUGH the time of trouble. Still....much to talk about and understand.

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never mind...

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This should clear up everyone's confusion. Enjoy the truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwGFZLM7xcw&list=PLjDDNIxax4p_L8OyG_AzNni5wnGLnKcYO&index=7

Right-on, Dr. Rita. This is the same guy (pastor Anderson) that did the video refuting the pre-trib rapture that has been posted here before and that I just posted again below. Looks like he has done a 22 part Revelation series at that link you gave. I can't wait to watch them all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN-34DADqvs

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I want to point something out about chapter 6 there. I like his teaching...BUT he is wrong. It is the voices of MEN in chapter 6 crying out a FALSE OMEN of WRATH. The wrath of God doesn't begin until the bowl judgments.

UNLESS, pastor Anderson is right....and it all happens at the same time...with revelation splitting in half. The trumpets and bowls would be the same thing. What do you think?

It's possible...but I think Tim Mchyde is probably right.

It goes either way...but one thing is sure....GOD HAS A PLAN FOR HIS PEOPLE.

Guest

I signed up a few days ago because the Lord impressed upon me that there were many here who needed help in understanding things and that my decades of struggle and study could be used to help clarify peoples understanding.

I have always tried to use scripture to prove my points and I knew there would be opposition (I'm used to it), but I felt like my time with the Lord (which lately has been 6-8 hours a day) was being wasted here - - that people were not really interested that much in truth, but in arguing their points, and that mostly (not all) without scripture.

So I deleted myself.

The 144,000 thing got me riled and when I get riled like that, it's for a reason. Yes, the Holy Spirit can (see the Apostle Paul) cause some to get very irritated when the written Word is bypassed for tradition (even traditions of what we were once taught).

So the Lord gave me the answer to the question this morning - not for me, but for you, and He instructed me to log back on and put it - and may you do with it what you will - I have done as instructed.

We argued yesterday whether the 144,000 were or were not of the "church". I argued vehemently that they are NOT - that they are jews/israelites -others argued the other side - without scripture by the way.

Here is what the Lord asked me this morning.

"By what and By Whom were you sealed with the Holy Spirit"? "By you Lord", I replied. The answer was obvious - by the Lord Himself by Whom we were sealed until the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30, 2nd Cor 1:22).

"By whom were the 144,000 sealed"? asked the Lord. I thought I was sure but I went to check. The answer is by an angel (See Revelation 7:1-3).

"Do you believe that those I sealed with my Spirit until the day of redemption would require another seal, and that by angels?". "No Lord, I do not".

"Then tell them. Go back and do as I say. I will direct to My words through you those who will hear for my calling and giftings are without repentance".

Amen, Lord.

Truly guys, I only came on to help. Bloodwashed.

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bloodshed,

Truth is, most people here don't use scripture in an argument....because we've already had these arguments 1 million times. Most of the regular posters have migrated SEVERAL times, and so you can find a lot of these same arguments on the old sites. We just assume that people know I think sometimes....what scripture we are talking about because it's been used so often. A lot of us have written a multitude of topics and papers, and even great theological works.......so there isn't much left to argue about that's new. It's just going back to the same things....and hoping someone sees your point better.

For me, I was always a pre-trib rapture person. I defended it, wrote massive articles about it....and then I found that something clicked and that all changed. I'm not hostile toward the people that hold opposing beliefs....it's just that most of us know each other so well. We've lost a lot around this place over the last few years(david in particular)......so the grand debates just don't happen so much anymore.

Peace be with you my friend. If you feel you are wasting your time....then you probably are. But don't waste your time because you are so concerned that others NEED you. I stayed relatively quiet for a long time because I had to "listen" again. I've always been here. I've never gone away...even when I was gone. Be here for the fellowship and the uplifting spirit, for the new information as it comes out....but if you are here because you think people need you here....then you are probably here for the wrong reasons.

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right only1, dove helped me to see that u need to decide which hill is worth dyin on, bloodwashed, my wife told me some truth in scripture does not open to people until they are ready 2 receive it, which i've found to be true personally, the Lord comes where yer to, not where ye think yer at...

Guest

The whole point of this post was the pre-trib rapture, which everyone, including myself don't mind jumping on because it's unscriptural and we are instructed to teach, rebuke, exhort. Your argument is not with me.

I didn't start the 144,000 debate - I answered an unscriptural interpretation. Then in my last post, I proved that the 144,000 CANNOT be from the church.

BY SCRIPTURE ALONE

And now there is silence on that issue and everyone wants to talk about my "reasoning" for doing so and what I expect and blah, blah, blah and who do I think I am?

Sorry, "groups" don't intimidate me - not standing up for the Word and the consequences therein is what intimidates me.

Someone said basically "we have debated all these things through the years, and we dont need to be told when we're wrong -we dont need you around.

OK - but you got it wrong. Look at the things people put and their videos of mens opinions on THIS issue alone. Again, I showed by scripture why the 144,000 cannot be from the church which was the second argument. Look above 2 posts - there in black and white - your proof - and you dont like it.

Well, then that shows me what I need to know.

Im sorry - truly - in my day I was happy when someone corrected me by scripture so that I might learn rightly and not go on spouting PUBLICLY things that are not so. Guess that's a lost art today, but I think perhaps you shouldn't smack around the pre-tribbers if you're not willing to put your own wrong beliefs under the same
microscope on the 144,000 - SCRIPTURE.

Oy-vay, wonder how many user names he's gonna burn through. I get an email when somebody deletes their accounts (copied below). The mods are not getting ban happy all of a sudden. Honest.

bloodwashed wrote:: Hi,

You receive this automatic e-mail because bloodwashed on "Watcher Forum" - https://watchermeet-up.forumotion.com has deleted his account.

bloodwashed2 wrote:: Hi,

You receive this automatic e-mail because bloodwashed2 on "Watcher Forum" - https://watchermeet-up.forumotion.com has deleted his account.

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bloodwashed wrote:: Someone said basically "we have debated all these things through the years, and we dont need to be told when we're wrong -we dont need you around.

My response was not about your theological ideology. It was about your issue of inserting a "need" to be here. You made yourself into a victim. Stay on topic! If you would stick to the scriptures and post the viewpoints...you would do well here.

It was only an issue when you started saying things like "people here don't use scripture much"(which I was giving an explanation for) and "I felt I was needed" of course I'm paraphrasing. It was the personal inserts that I was responding to...not the scriptural argument. I agree that the 144,000 are members of the house of Israel(whether they are part of the church or not is irrelevant to me, I just stick to the literal idea). I wasn't disagreeing with your theology....I was responding to your critique of the behavior of people on this forum.

There's a lot of mind-reading in this place. I've ate my share of crow, and I'm happy to have some humble pie on the side....cause my ego can always use it. It IS however, absolutely necessary to remember that things aren't personal when we debate theology. We are trying to deepen our understanding. Someone disagreeing with you isn't the same thing as them saying "get away, we don't like different ideas here". We love the diversity, as long as it is rooted in the word.

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those of u that don't want a pretribulation rapture, guess what?...u don't get 1 ;

Guest

jem

I hope Pastor Anderson answers your questions regarding the 144000; I personally don't agree with his interpretation on this subject.

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