Did Paul Have A Woman As His Pastor?

Did Paul Have A Woman As His Pastor?

May 28, 2017 by SkyWatch Editor
   


Designating Phoebe as a diakonos shows that she was a “minister” from the church in Cenchrea who had been sent by that church to Rome on a special assignment. Paul recognizes her as such by using the same word for her that he uses for himself, for Barnabas and for Apollos. Paul also said that Phoebe had been a prostatis to many, and of myself also. The KJV and NKJV translate the word as “helper,” but Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon says that prostatis refers to “a woman set over others” and that it describes Phoebe as a “guardian, protector and benefactor.” Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words says that prostatis is a word of “dignity” and indicates the high esteem with which she was regarded. These definitions are correct for prostatis is made up of the prefix pro, meaning “before,” and “istemi,” meaning “to stand.” It, therefore, literally means “to stand before” and identifies Phoebe as a leader with the qualities one would expect in a modern-day pastor (Hyatt, Paul, Women and Church, 28).

(READ MORE)

this is garbage, and an outright misrepresentation of scripture....a man is NOT to be in a position to be under subjection to a woman....period....man is head of the woman just as Christ is head of the church

Short answer, no.

Mike is correct, this is a misrepresentation. The author of this piece is wanting to look at one word while failing to look at the whole collection of books that make up the Bible. But, without even going to the Scriptures yet, just a little thinking about this will tell you it is wrong.

Remember, when the Apostle Paul was alive the church was still being built. He and the other Apostles were tasked with establishing the church. If this great endeavor was entrusted unto him, and the others, why would there be a need for him to have a pastor, as he was the one traveling around preaching and teaching, himself? Nobody on earth was given greater authority in the kingdom than the apostles in this period of time.

Now, what do the Scriptures say about this topic? Fortunately, we don't have to search all over the New Testament to find an answer. Paul answers it for us, himself, in one letter (but I will include one other passage);

1. In 1 Corinthians 1:1-2, we see that Paul is writing to the church at Corinth; "Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:"

Here Paul does two things for us (as far as this topic is concerned), A. Paul shows that it is he that is writing this letter. So we get to see that it is in his own words, as directed by the Holy Ghost, that we find the answers to this topic, and

B., Paul points out that he is an "apostle of Jesus Christ." Again, that is important because it shows us that Paul wasn't in need of a pastor.

Why do I say the apostles weren't in need of pastors? Mark 16:14-15 "Afterward He appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen Him after He was risen. And He said unto them, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." We see in this passage that Christ gave His apostles the command to go and preach. If they were to be the ones preaching, why would they need someone preaching to them?







2. Now to the crux of the story. Are women even Scripturally allowed to be preachers? I mean, we see it becoming more and more popular, and being allowed by more institutions and learned men. It is allowed by groups that used to be very conservative and sound in the Scriptures. Were we correct that these people are sound in the Scriptures? Did they use to be sound in the past and loose that soundness at one point in time?







What did Paul say about women in the church? Well, he didn't mince any words! 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." I will leave it that for Paul speaks very straightforward and their is nothing that I can add to it.

She was wealthy I believe.  She was definitely a "benefactor ". The way I understand it is that the apostles had some wealthy women who supported their evangelism with money.  But I could be wrong because I've never really studied this in depth.

Yes Delphi, I believe you are correct. There are also ways a lady can "minister," as women in the Scriptures also did. Not as a preacher or pastor though, but, rather, in the sense of giving service, care, or aid. And, attending to necessities, among other things. The author of this piece took 'minister" to mean "clergy, pastor, or a person authorized to conduct service" without looking at other scriptures.

a pastor is to be the "HUSBAND of one wife", so how can a woman be a husband of a wife and remain in a God-fearing bible believing church?....don't bring up today because we are not talking about reprobates...if a woman gets in the pulpit with authority over the men of the church, my ass is up and gone, right then!

You're right Mike. I didn't even think about mentioning the qualifications, just what Paul said about women speaking in church. I think it is pretty obvious he wouldn't have had a female pastor.

I see now I didn't finish my thoughts, on why I brought up people today. My mind is bouncing all over the place today...lol. Basically, I have heard people use the excuse that if the leaders of their church say it's okay it must be okay, because they know the Bible and must know what they are talking about...and other arguments along that line.

Anyway, I could have made a whole sermon out of this topic (I think I have before). So, everyone here can breathe a sigh of relief that I didn't type a whole one out.

“sent as a woman set over others” - perhaps as a good example rather than preacher.

“guardian, protector and benefactor” - someone people could turn to for help, thus “helper”.

i hear how you guys understand the role of women in the church. How do you feel about women on forums?

Comparing an internet forum to a church gathering on the 1st day of the week is like comparing apples and oranges, imo. I don't think what Paul said about the church services has anything to do with an internet forum. If you notice in 1 Cor. 14:34 Paul says, as a key phrase, "in the churches."

lovisa, i do not consider a woman a second class citizen.....i am just going by what the scripture says in no uncertain terms.....in a marriage, the woman is an equal to the man, until the final decision is made and that goes to the man.....a woman is not to rule over the man in marriage and the church( see the correlation).....women on this forum?...fantastic, because women make better bible students, as a whole, because men are stubborn, and would fight a circle saw to prove a point, even if its wrong....i know this because i am one.....women are smarter and that may be why they are not allowed to rule over us...lol....by the way, there is a lady that has joined this forum who is a very good bible researcher, but she has not posted one single post...okay bordercollie, come out of the closet and join in.....josephus hit it with both feet, now its your time.....i'm getting too old to type and would rather just read what you youngun's write

Thanks for your replies. i just felt like it needed to be asked. They're talking about etiquette or protocol. Like if i'm talking to a couple, it's more appropriate for me to address the woman rather than her husband because that's the chain of command (for lack of a better term). She has ownership rights. However, a man could address the husband directly with no bad feelings from the wife. The same in the church if you're a woman, don't usurp your husband's authority - it's degrading.

Anyway, nice topic.

Welcome to the forum Josephus. It's good to have you here. 

And bordercollie it would be good to hear from you too, another researcher would be most welcome.

Thanks Lovisa!

It's the same for me. If I'm talking to a couple it is proper for me to address the man until introduced to the lady. Even then it is expected that I would talk to the man, unless the lady asks something. It would be out of line for me to meet a couple and start talking only to the woman.

As far as women go, overall, I believe Jesus makes it very clear that we are to honor and respect our ladies. He gives a couple very good examples of this himself. One example is in John 19:26-27 while Jesus was hanging from the cross he noticed his mother standing next to John and told her "Woman, behold thy son!" and to John, "Behold thy mother!" Jesus did this wanting John to take care of His mother. Imagine that...while Christ was dying for us on the cross, the one person that he showed concern for was the woman that gave birth to Him.

And then, out of all of the people that Jesus had spoken to, taught, done miracles to/for, and of the men that he had made His apostles, none of these men were the first to see Jesus when He arose from the grave. Jesus chose Mary Magdalene to be first person to see Him after His resurrection.

These are just a couple of examples that come to mind, but there are plenty to show that women are to be held in high esteem.
And, some of the people that knew the most about the Bible that I have met have been women. My maternal Grandmother taught me more than just about any man ever has! The first class I taught had a couple of ladies in it that put me to shame when it came to Bible knowledge! I say that just to piggy-back off of what Mike said, and to agree with him.

Hi and thank ya'll  for the welcome. Just to add a little background to  how I came to be drawn into this fascinating  watcher's forum ... 
 I had some deep experiences  associated  with losing a loved one and more than one happening that was a sure death call, which I walked away from.( I felt the  definite presence of Him there in each case.) 
   Anyway,I am still learning  and shudder to think where I'd be if I had not run into Michael . Yes, I have always been a believer but had always just swallowed what I was told and didn't think for myself.  Michael gave  me  a lot of stuff to research and has always told me to think for myself based on what the Bible says -and not any person....  This has sure impacted  me in a most positive way. i.e.  I have lost my interest in most of what is called entertainment these days and see it for what it is-- for what it is doing to society ... subtly . 
This is how I view this subject on women preachers.. . I go by what the Bible says and that is it..
I'm still learning  and so may hang back a bit . but will appreciate this forum. I'm glad to be here. 
 judy

Judy's here...now it's a party!!!