Will we love the darkness more than the Light? ** Part 2

Re-listening to the D. Icke video right now. I like the guy and I have listened to him, Bill Cooper and Jordan Maxwell for decades. I do not agree with everything he says, but I can't fault his hard core research. Dude did his homework. If he would say " My Lord and Savior Jesus/Yeshua Christ", I would listen to him every day. I heard J. Farrell say that he was a believer in Jesus/Yeshua and that he was who He said that he was, but  I have never heard Icke say anything remotely close to him being a believer. Jordan Maxwell says that Christ did not exist and that the NT was a metaphor. I learned a lot from Maxwell's lectures, but when I heard him say that, I grew less and less interested in learning anything else. William Cooper was my favorite, and he was way ahead of everyone in the NWO/esoteric game, but I am not sure that he really believed the bible. There is no damned way that Bill Cooper was not murdered. He had the Clintons pegged very early on. Cooper predicted the 9/11 event on his radio show and it wasn't long before Cooper was dead..
 Now, after listening to the Ickee video,do people understand why I don't blindly support IS-RA-EL? The Israel of Moses is not the IS-RA-EL of the NWO! Ancient Israel of the OT was the shadow of the Church of the NT. Christ is the Angel of the Lord in the OT and is revealed in the NT as to who He really is. The Word of God is Jesus/Yeshua, the 2nd person of the Godhead, the Voice of the Father. It was Christ who created everything, the Sound, the Voice who spoke and nothing became everything. Chapter 1 of the Gospel of John leaves no doubt

As Charles Lawson said..........."Something is coming."

Anyone with half a brain should be able to see it but many can't because they are blind. The blind can not see what shines so brightly for those that see. The Lord allows many to see what "The World" can't see.

Two spirits that war........."The Holy Spirit......The spirit of antichrist."

ScaRZ wrote:

As Charles Lawson said..........."Something is coming."

Anyone with half a brain should be able to see it but many can't because they are blind. The blind can not see what shines so brightly for those that see. The Lord allows many to see what "The World" can't see.

Two spirits that war........."The Holy Spirit......The spirit of antichrist."

"Something is coming."

I can feel it

A world where certain individuals will have the power in their hands to take away the very thoughts they find offensive. If you don't agree you must stay silent or face the mob.

The mind,the will,the emotions that make you the individual you are will be replaced. The Soul you are,will become what they want you to be. On a massive scale we will become a cookie cutter creation. 

I think back to Jesus Christ standing strong in a den of vipers. This reminds me so very much of our time we are living in today. I can feel the stones being thrown as the mob gathers surrounding us.

One basic truth can be used as a foundation for a mountain of lies, and if we dig down deep enough in the mountain of lies, and bring out that truth, to set it on top of the mountain of lies; the entire mountain of lies will crumble under the weight of that one truth, and there is nothing more devastating to a structure of lies than the revelation of the truth upon which the structure of lies was built, because the shock waves of the revelation of the truth reverberate, and continue to reverberate thoughout the Earth for generations to follow, awakening even those people who had no desire to be awakened to the truth.

(by Delamer Duverus)


"Give me control over a nation's currency, and I care not who makes its laws."


(Mayer Amschel Rothschild)
(1743-1812)


The most proficient liars don't have to lie very often.
The most proficient lies are half true.

(Jonathan Wayne Boulden)


Ye shall not surely die: For Elohim doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as elohim, knowing good and evil.

(The serpent)

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3


Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,


(Here Paul is talking about the return of Christ)


That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 


(As you can see in this verse Paul is trying to warn us not to fall for false claims that Christ is about to return or has returned, even if they say they had a revelation,a vision or written letter).


Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 


(The falling away and the revealing of the son of perdition [Antichrist] must take place FIRST before Christ will return. Don't be deceived into believing in the lies, signs and wonders of a false doctrine.....A false Christ....A false god).

You can look back at the Days of Noah and see The LORD finally came to a point that the door was closed. Once the door was closed on the Ark the Wrath of God was poured out and the wicked were "Taken Away" by the flood. One day that door will close again.

In Matthew 24:37 Jesus is very plain in telling us that during this period of time of his coming it will be as it was in those Days of Noah. The wicked may not be "Taken Away" by the flood waters but they will be taken away. 


Matthew 24:37........"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Jesus Christ speaking of the wheat and the tares tells us how they will both come up together,but one day a separation will occur. There will come a day that the tares will be "Taken Away" and destroyed. The wheat will remain and be gathered into "His Barn". I believe Matthew 24:40-41 is a picture of this event.

Matthew 24:40-41


Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


Just as the wicked were "Taken Away" of the flood waters,so also shall these wicked be "Taken Away".

Some try and use these verses of Matthew 24:40-41 as the rapture but I don't believe they have anything to do with the rapture at all.

Some try and use these verses of Matthew 24:40-41 as the rapture but I don't believe they have anything to do with the rapture at all

Nor do I. There is a rapture but its plain as day when it is: right before the wrath of God is poured out. At the sound of the 7th trump, the LAST trump

Once I complete reading from Genesis through Revelation I can take it and close it up. Is this the end of the story? Now if we look at the pages of eternity,eternity never ends.

Ephesians 2:5-7


Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,by grace ye are saved;


And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

You can't make people what you want them to be. As far back as history takes us there has been racism. You can't sweep history under the rug. We all have said and done things that scar other people as well as ourselves. We can't hide from our sins.

Change must come first with a change of the heart. Without that change everything remains frozen in time. 

We do not live in a world where everybody is going to respect the color of skin as equal to their own. We do not live in a world where everybody will give respect to different opinions.

This world we live in is a very sick world. Yes! I believe people can change,but force can never be a part of change. Once someone attempts to force change the gulf widens......."It never shrinks." To attempt to force it has nothing to do with "The Light" it only brings about "The Darkness".

When you look at this old world you can't help but see.........."men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."

When you look at this old world you can't help but see.........."men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."


I was about to comment(huh? green print?)on the evil generation of the last days, the generation that is spoken of by the Prophets, Peter, Paul and the Lord Himself.
We have gone from point A to point B in a very long time, even though the road had potholes and erosion along the way, and included flat tire, detours and many wrong turns. But, we have gone from point B to point C in a very short time. An astoundingly short time. I have finally come to terms wit the fact that this is a fight, and it is a fight that we CANNOT win. This fight has to be won for us by someone else. Just a hunch, but people have hollered "earthquake" for decades, and they have seemingly increased. Was this due to better detection ability or did they actually increase? Don't know. I ain't a prophet, so I ain't predicting anything, but I do suspect news concerning earthquakes to skyrocket in the near future. I have been wrong plenty, but I am convinced that we are now entering the final days of the world system. Scripture passage below: ( Note: Everybody always quotes Romans 8:28 but they never read the rest of the chapter. Don't like it, I guess)




Question: "Does God sometimes use evil to accomplish His plans (Habakkuk 1:5-11)?"

Answer: [url=https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Hab 1.5-11]Habakkuk 1:5-11[/url] is a prophecy in which God relates His intention to raise up Babylon, a “ruthless” and “dreaded” nation, to achieve His purpose. This raises the question, Does God sometimes use evil to accomplish His plans?

There is an important distinction to be made between God controlling evil and God creating evil. God is not the author of sin, but He can use sinful men to attain an objective. [url=https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Rom 8.28]Romans 8:28[/url] says, “For those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.” “All things” includes both good and bad things. God can use struggles, heartbreaks and tragedies in ways to bring about His glory and our good. Such events, even though we don’t understand the reason for them, are part of His perfect, divine plan. If God could not control evil, He would not be God. His sovereignty demands that He be in control of everything, even “dreaded” nations such as Babylon.

At the same time, the Bible is clear that God does not sin and He performs no evil. [url=https://biblia.com/bible/esv/James 1.13]James 1:13[/url] teaches, “God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.” [url=https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Deut 32.4]Deuteronomy 32:4[/url] says, “The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice” (see also [url=https://biblia.com/bible/esv/2 Sam 22.31]2 Samuel 22:31[/url]; [url=https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Ps 18.30]Psalm 18:30[/url]; and [url=https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Matt 5.48]Matthew 5:48[/url]).

The problem in Habakkuk is that God was using the Babylonians (an evil people) to accomplish His will. Our wise and perfect God can and sometimes does use the sin already existing in our world to fulfill His purpose. The perfect example of this is Jesus’ crucifixion: the murder of Christ was an evil act, but through it God redeemed His elect and “disarmed the [demonic] powers and authorities” ([url=https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Col 2.15]Colossians 2:15[/url]). In Habakkuk’s day, God’s purpose was to bring judgment on Judah for their idolatry. Babylon was the instrument of His judgment (cf. [url=https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Isa 10.5]Isaiah 10:5[/url]).

God’s revelation caused Habakkuk to then ask how God could use a nation wickeder than Judah to judge Judah (1:12-2:1). God’s response was a promise that He would later punish Babylon as well (2:2-20). In the end, Habakkuk could only acknowledge the Lord’s perfect wisdom; the prophet ends with a song of praise in chapter 3.

We may struggle with questions about God’s methods as Habakkuk did. How God chooses to operate is up to Him. At times, He intervenes miraculously. Other times, He works behind the scenes. And, yes, God may even allow a certain measure of freedom to evil forces in our world to bring about His design. Like Habakkuk, if we view life from God’s perspective, our response will be to worship the Lord, knowing He is in control of all things.

michael371 wrote:

( Note: Everybody always quotes Romans 8:28 but they never read the rest of the chapter. Don't like it, I guess)

I see what you are saying Michael,there are verses that really make us think about the big picture doesn't it?

Here below are a few verses that can blow away the vast majority of mainstream teachings in my opinion.

Romans 8:13..........."For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

When it says "Die" it means die.....die for eternity,because we all die don't we? 

But as it reads if we through the Spirit mortify ( are ashamed, or are humiliated) by the deeds of the body........"We shall live".........When it says "Live" it means live..........live for eternity.


Romans 8:24-25


For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?


But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Yes! "By Hope"................we must have patience......."Not give up but wait no matter how fierce the storms of life rage."

⁹For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. ³⁰Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. ³¹What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Michael what are your thoughts on predestination?

Is predestination for every single person that has ever been born into this world?

Is predestination for an elect of God?

Scarz, predestination is the cause and effect of God's will and purpose. God's desired outcome is predestined  by Him and He causes events to transpire to bring about his desired results. Don't mistake ELECTION for predestination, although election is part of the predestination process. God is sovereign, don't nothing happen without His allowing it to happen. Its evident that God actually has two wills, one is a permissive will, which is a parent has with a child when they turn their heads and allow little "no-nos" to go unpunished, and His directive will which absolutely HAS TO happen, because He predetermined it to happen. In other words, not everything is predestined, but the results are. To the average person, this is offensive because they want to be in control of their lives and leave God out. There are some, reprobates, that can do that, but we can't and its a damn good thing,too.
Elect One gave the best answer to election the other day: If you are a child of God, saved by the Blood of Christ, you are one of the Elect. Scarz, you are a smart guy, damn smart and a heavy thinker, you look at things from different angles and do the homework to check them out. Few people know that Lucifer ain't the name of Ha-Satan before the fall. Few know that xmass and easter were rooted in paganism, but you did. Now,think about this for a while. Being coverted is called being "born again" or a "new birth". Obviously, you experienced a physical birth. How much did you have to do with any of that? From conception to the doctor spanking your butt? Now, you didn't have anything to do with your spiritual rebirth either. You may have thought you did, but you didn't. You had to be regenerated and MADE alive. Know what our biggest problem is in scriptural discussion and debate? We try to think like God. Gods ways are not our ways. This verse of scripture is so ignored that its appalling. I get angry when these longwinded asshat preachers give those self-serving altar calls that try to convince people to "accept"(impossible) Christ by playing on emotions:
John 6:44
“No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

There was a time that I fought the very doctrine that I am defending. You may think that I am a hardcore Calvinist, but I am not, although I am Calvinistic. Actually I do adhere to the 5 point Calvinistic position. All Baptist at one time, and most Protestants believed exactly as I do. You can read the works of the early church fathers and see that universal atonement is a very new thing, on the grand scale.

My point is, you cannot reject scripture just because one doesn't like it. One must adhere to the whole Counsel of God. Another problem, thanks to C.I. Scofield, is dispensationalism. Error has made people think that the OT is no longer relevant. Nothing is further from the truth. The OT is the NT in a concealed form and the NT is the OT in a revealed form. The Law, The Temple, the Ark of Noah, the Ark of the Covenant and much more, were types and shadows of Christ.

People are shocked when I express my loathing for Billy Graham. He did more to destroy the gospel in the SBC than Democrats could ever do. Include Billy Sunday into that,also. A great Icon of the SBC was C.H. Spurgeon, and if my memory serves me, who was also a founder of the Dallas Theological Seminary. Nowadays,I wonder if anyone has even read what the man wrote. Painkiller kicking in, so I am having to fix too many typos! Below is what caused error to creep into the modern church. It doesn't even make sense:

Question: "What is Arminianism, and is it biblical?"

Answer: Arminianism is a system of belief that attempts to explain the relationship between God’s sovereignty and mankind’s free will, especially in relation to salvation. Arminianism is named after Jacobus Arminius (1560—1609), a Dutch theologian. While Calvinism emphasizes the sovereignty of God, Arminianism emphasizes the responsibility of man. If Arminianism is broken down into five points, similar to the five points of Calvinism, these would be the five points:

(1) Partial Depravity – humanity is depraved but still able to seek God. We are fallen and tainted by sin but not to the extent that we cannot chose to come to God and accept salvation, with the help of prevenient grace from God. Given such grace, human will is free and has the power to yield to the influence of the Spirit. Note: many Arminians reject partial depravity and hold a view very close to Calvinistic total depravity. (2) Conditional Election – God only “chooses” those whom He knows will choose to believe. No one is predetermined for either heaven or hell. (3) Unlimited Atonement – Jesus died for everyone, even those who are not chosen and will not believe. Jesus’ death was for all of humanity, and anyone can be saved by belief in Him. (4) Resistible Grace – God’s call to be saved can be resisted and/or rejected. We can resist God’s pull toward salvation if we choose to. (5) Conditional Salvation – Christians can lose their salvation if they actively reject the Holy Spirit’s influence in their lives. The maintenance of salvation is required for a Christian to retain it. Note: many Arminians deny "conditional salvation" and instead hold to "eternal security."

The only point of Arminianism that four-point Calvinists believe to be biblical is point #3—Unlimited Atonement. [url=https://biblia.com/bible/esv/1 John 2.2]First John 2:2[/url] says, “He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.” [url=https://biblia.com/bible/esv/2 Pet 2.1]Second Peter 2:1[/url] tells us that Jesus even bought the false prophets who are doomed: “But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.” Jesus’ salvation is available to anyone and everyone who will believe in Him. Jesus did not just die for those who will be saved.

Four-point Calvinism (the official position of Got Questions Ministries) finds the other four points of Arminianism to be unbiblical, to varying degrees. [url=https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Rom 3.10%E2%80%9318]Romans 3:10–18[/url] strongly argues for total depravity. Conditional election, or election based on God’s foreknowledge of human action, underemphasizes God’s sovereignty ([url=https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Rom 8.28%E2%80%9330]Romans 8:28–30[/url]). Resistible grace underestimates the power and determination of God. Conditional salvation makes salvation a reward for work rather than a gift of grace ([url=https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Eph 2.8%E2%80%9310]Ephesians 2:8–10[/url]). There are problems with both systems, but we see Calvinism as more biblically based than Arminianism. However, both systems fail to adequately explain the relationship between God’s sovereignty and mankind’s free will—due to the fact that it is impossible for a finite human mind to discern a concept only God can fully understand.

I'm glad I ask you Michael you did a very good lay out of your beliefs on the subject. For years now I've thought that Michael Heiser gave some great points on predestination.


By Michael Heiser

Key question........"What exactly is it that God decided in predestination?"

Normal View

God predestinates who will be saved,and all events equates foreknowledge with predesination. Before the foundation of the world.

Progress of human history......."All events "including" evil acts were predestinated."

At the end of human history........"Every event happened the way God predestinated it to."


Ramifications of the Normal View

*Every event no matter how good and evil,small or great was predestinated.

*There is "No" actual human freedom.

-Despite philosophical attempts to make humans seem free (e.g.,"their wills agree with God's") this predestination means humans could not have chosen otherwise.


*The "Fall" had to be predestinated.

*God therefore predestines all evil.

-Attempts to soften this (evil is part of God's plan but he doesn't ordain it ) leave God either needing evil for his plan to work,or deliberately including it in his plan (couldn't God think of a better one?)

-I don't see how this allows humans to image God,since freedom "Must" be a communicable attribute to image God (our not being able to make real choices means we are not like God.)


My Proposal....= Michael Heiser

Before the foundation of the world......."God predestinates the ends of human history (how/ what he wants it to end/accomplish) God decides to make humans free."

Progress of human history,all events are not predestinated (some may be) but all the end points are predestinated. God influences the behavior of his human imagers,who have freedom,through other humans,his Spirit,and other non-human imagers (e.g.,angels).

The separation of foreknowledge and predestination calls for this idea.

The end of human history........"All ends pretestinated by God are accomplished."


Ramifications of My Proposal

*Evil is not predestinated,it arises out of human or non-human freedom.

-God saw this,and had plans to fix it so that his decreed end (a believing remnant and kingdom/council on earth) will not be thwarted.

-God does not need or want evil in any sense. But he knew that was the cost of his decision.

-The cost of God's decision:suffering the effects of evil-but this was deemed by God preferable to creating robots made of flesh who were not like him.

*There is actual human freedom.

*The fall was not predestinated,but was foreknown (I'm giving them freedom and I know they'll screw it up,but I'm doing it anyway-and I already know how I'll defeat it toward my desired ends").

*The salvation of individuals may or may not be predestinated.

-God is free to predestinate a remnant if he chooses.Romans 8 (and other passages).

-The questions are:

*In what sense?

*Are all believers at all times predestinated?

*Can someone who believes stop believing?

-If we go into Romans 8 thinking God has decreed there will be a remnant (out of the elect),and "That" is what is predestinated in that passage.....


*Then look at the passage anew:

*Romans 8:28........"And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose."

-His purpose=The end;a remnant

*Romans 8:29........"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."

-Notice that in this verse it is the "End" that is predestinated (the conformity of to Christ's image).


 Michael Heiser's views added to Romans 8:30.

*Romans 8:30........"And those whom he predestined [to be part of the end remnant] he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." [Their path will end in glorification]

*I am suggesting that "if you believe (and keep believing),God has predestinated that you will be saved and glorified." (You will be in the remnant that he predestinated to exist at the end of all things).

*I believe this honors both predestination and the necessity to believe (make that choice).

*Yes,God can influence some more than others.

*Yes,God has to awaken ("quicken";regenerate) people to enable them to believe.

*He can bypass people in that regard (He predestinated a remnant,not the salvation of everyone).

*Once you are enabled to believe,you must believe to have eternal life (no one will be found in heaven who did not believe).

*This enablement may or may not be the "calling" of Romans 8 - that passage does not use quickening language,so they may be synonymous,or only some of the enabled (quickened) may be called.

Ephesians 2:8 Context

⁵Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) ⁶And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: ⁷That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. ⁸For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: ⁹Not of works, lest any man should boast. ¹⁰For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. ¹¹Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Really good teaching coming up as soon as he finishes, It concerns Billy Graham and how he changed his preaching in concert with W. Randolph Hearst.
Okay, go to the 58 minute mark. I don't care, you can like it or you can not like it, but everything Jim says is true concerning Graham. I don't always agree with him on some historical stuff, but his doctrinal position is the same as mine, and its biblically sound.  He only touched the surface on Graham and catholicism today. I can actually tell you a story about him that took place 15 miles up the road. My cousin was there with another man and witnessed it.......The end DOES NOT justify the means!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy7EhMQOdIE

Michael this verse of scripture is so true. When we really begin to understand as more knowledge comes to us we can't help but be full of more and more sorrow. I knew early on in life that this "World" was just not for me. When eyes and ears are opened up how can we be without sadness as this "World" is spread out before us. This is why Jesus Christ said......."Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." 1 John 2:15



Ecclesiastes 1:18


For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

I remember talking to my Grandfather on the subject of Billy Graham many years ago. My Grandfather would talk my ears off about Graham being a false teacher and preacher. Billy Graham would kiss up to not only the Pope but just about everybody. I'm with you Michael......"If (The World) loves you then there is no doubting you are walking the wide path that leads to destruction.

As I say over and over......"If they or something is too popular (liked, admired, or enjoyed by many people) the Adversary is in the mix. Wide is the gate that "The World" is rushing to get through. The narrow way is revealed for those "The Light" makes the path known.

Everyone will not and can not be right. All paths do not lead to the same destination. All paths definitely lead somewhere,but where?

Jesus Christ is the true vine......."I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman." (John 15:1)



John 15:5-6


I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.


If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.





With Jesus Christ being the true vine then there is a vine that isn't true. I believe we all know who that vine is. There are way more people attached to that vine than the True Vine.

Grampa' was right

Hebrews 3:12-14


Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.


But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.


For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;



For it to be apostasy you've got to be a believer in order to abandon or give up your faith.

How can you abandon something you never had in the first place?........."You can't."

How is it possible to fall away from the faith if you never really believed?........"Once again...You can't"

You can't fall away if you already were fallen.

Hey Scarz, too bad that you,Dove and Researcher( and others on the board, but particularly these three who went the whole way) missed the telephone conversation that I just finished with. Miss Penny is the VP of one of the banks that we use, and a devout Christian, who like me survived a pretty serious bout(s) with cancer. Her husband and her have a ministry for children, and I mean a real heartfelt ministry, not a catholic priest type thing.
My wife and I were setting up our monthly retirement income three years ago, and at that time, she was in charge of that, before becoming VP. We knew each other pretty well due to conversations concerning surviving cancer, and the ordeals that both of us went through concerning coming to the point of realizing our own mortality. This lady is one helluva' woman. Fortunately, or unfortunately, she closed the door to her office with me inside with her. About 3 hours later, she opened the door, a visibly shaken woman, either from being alone with a perceived crazy man, or from believing what this man told her. Lol, she had taken notes and she actually looked the things up. One thing I told her was about Epstein and the Lolita express, the CIA connection/Laurel Canyon/Adrenochrome and the various other stuff that we know about the worldwide pedo ring, and she just couldn't grasp that this was a real thing. Boy, that has changed! She did her homework, she learned, although somewhat of a broad and shallow knowledge, and she ain't quitting. Her "oh shit" moment was when Epstein was arrested, she knew that the old crazy man was spot on, she knew that all of her own research was not fake news and folly and this was very,very real.
I just finished explaining to her that the sacrifice, sexual abuse and the ritual abuse of innocents was actually part of a religion of pagans, going all the way back to Genesis 11, how abortion is the modern version of passing the children through the fire and the actual source of their power and wealth. Remember, its not important that we believe it, what is important is that THEY believe it.
It makes it all worthwhile to see one Miss Penny have the light come on after trying to talk to a thousand mental dildos who are so stupid that I wonder how they got down the birth canal( Sen. Kennedy  from LA. quote)
I sstill have major doubts about Q being anything other than a larp, but it did wake a hell of a lot of people up and cause them to open up to the possibility that there are some very evil people(hybrids?) running things in the world system

michael371 wrote:

A thousand mental dildos who are so stupid that I wonder how they got down the birth canal.

 
Ohhhh, I’m so stealing that! It may show up someday in some modified form in a future siggy or thread.

Michael.......You are a wise man I really enjoy reading your thoughts. 

You as well as several others that take part in the forum understand what most in this old world do not want to see. They love the blindness that darkness brings. They hide from the light and hold tight to a dark world.

I hate to say it but it's the truth......"Most so called teachers and preachers are really disciples of Nimrod."  After all, false Christianity is merely a dressed up carbon copy of Nimrod’s religion "Mystery Babylon."

If you really do a deep study Nimrod stands unequalled for his symbolism of evil and Satanic practices. 

Nimrod, who was said to have been born on December 25th, the High Sabbath of Babylon. Being a “High Sabbath” means that it was an annual, not a weekly Sabbath. 

Nimrod is the one that is worshipped every Christmas via the Christmas tree standing in their houses.  That is where the spirit of Nimrod was said to have gone......." Into the ever living tree." 

Nimrod was merely the first of The Seven Kings spoken of in The Book of  Revelation who have been raised up by The Adversary to deceive and lead the world away from God The Father and towards himself.  

The confusing of the languages at The Tower of Babel led to each group having a different name for their god, but they still worshipped the same god.

ScaRZ wrote:

I hate to say it but it's the truth......"Most so called teachers and preachers are really disciples of Nimrod."  After all, false Christianity is merely a dressed up carbon copy of Nimrod’s religion "Mystery Babylon."

If you really do a deep study Nimrod stands unequalled for his symbolism of evil and Satanic practices. 

Nimrod, who was said to have been born on December 25th, the High Sabbath of Babylon. Being a “High Sabbath” means that it was an annual, not a weekly Sabbath. 

Nimrod is the one that is worshipped every Christmas via the Christmas tree standing in their houses.  That is where the spirit of Nimrod was said to have gone......." Into the ever living tree." 

Nimrod was merely the first of The Seven Kings spoken of in The Book of  Revelation who have been raised up by The Adversary to deceive and lead the world away from God The Father and towards himself.  

The confusing of the languages at The Tower of Babel led to each group having a different name for their god, but they still worshipped the same god.

Bingo!!!!

Assembling all the pieces of the puzzle together paints a perfect picture that truly reveals the counterfeit Christian Religion for what it is. That is exactly what The Antichrist is..........."A counterfeit". Very easy to spot if we read the scriptures and open our eyes and ears.

A person’s traditions can cause one to interpret the Scriptures in line with those traditions. 

Anyone who really reads The New Testament and stops elevating their traditions above the truth can see December 25th as well as Easter has nothing to do with the birth and resurrection of Jesus Christ. These stories are based on Nimrod, not The Lord Jesus Christ. The Babylonian Mystery Religion is still alive and well through false christianity as well as other religions that flood this World.

Although all that is technically correct, I've read, and you can go crazy on this, and I won't be
offended, that it was a way to introduce the Christian faith to the pagans.  Sort of like, yes you
worship  semiramis and tammuz, but they are false gods.  Here is the  Real One to worship.
So, they transitioned the worship of one to the other while yet maintaining the same traditions and celebratory seasons.

You have to think about what 'seasons' meant to them.  The timing of the seasons was in fact 'life giving' as the Message of the Christ also is "Life Giving".

You find me one Christian who thinks they are celebrating the birth of Tammuz at Christmas, and I'll show you a pagan.  In other words, it isn't the tree or even the day that proves or disproves anyone's faith. 

Knowing that God looks on the heart, in many ways I feel the argument about pagan dates in antiquity may be 'fashionably informed', but really of no account. 

And the devil uses it to condemn.  No surprise there. He'll use whatever he can.
And it hasn't been but a number of years that the birth of Christ in the fall is now beginning to be the accepted time. 

How does a society change?  We can know.  We're watching it now.  Slow infiltration
over time.
And that's how Christianity came to be established throughout the pagan nations.
God doesn't love me any less for having a Christmas cactus bloom in December.
And the assumption that people are worshiping a tree is ludicrous. 

The list of traditions is long  if you want to start down this road. Look at the Eastern Orthodox Church.  And it's dangerous to use it to condemn anyone for it, or to label it a sin, in my opinion. 
It's how I see it, but strongly see it.  My response is, "Yeah...1700 years ago?  So?"
And did it work?  YES, IT DID.  You know there are, and were,  two Bethlehem's in Israel?
And reason to think tradition has chosen the wrong one?
We could go on and on.

Nowhere are you told to celebrate these "holy days" and the end does not justify the means. You can't eat at the table of the Lord and the table of devils. Combining and compromising is not something a Christian should be content to do. The catholic church is responsible for all of this xmass shit. It was illegal to celebrate xmass in the country until Alabama, of all idiots, legalized it in 1856. Oklahoma was the last one to legal it, in 1907. It was common knowledge that xmass and ishtar were of pagan origins

You know what Paul said.  If you are convicted by it, don't do it.  That's simple.  But be careful in your judging or condemning of others who don't see it your way, because it is not the unforgivable sin.

Paul also said, 'Where sin abounds, Grace much more abounds."

And I can't help but think of the gross amount of sins many indulge in 'Unknowingly', which probably accounts for the Grace statement above, not to mention "Forgiveness of sin."

I just recently read a statement that I didn't have a ready example of.  It was, 'Facts' aren't Truths'.
I'm thinking we just found one.  
Maybe this is an occasion God spoke of when He said, what the devil means for evil, 
God will turn to good for those who Love Him...

But look, there's ye olde Tribulation coming that will take care of a world of sin, so...I don't care to make a big deal about this.

Though it did make me think about how Paul addressed the Greeks with the statue to the Unknown God.  After his sermon, he did not require that they tear down the others in order to accept the New.

I have seen God bring so much Goodness out of Christmas (in the presence of trees)
that I can't advocate for ridding the world of it.  Transitioning to something more acceptable would be fine, but will still take time we probably don't have.
And I'm sure you see all the other God supported expressions of family, brotherhood,
congregating, worshiping, charity, etc. at Christmas time that would be a great loss if abandoned.

Different Christian denominations seek verification of their doctrinal beliefs, not the truth. This is why there are so many different Christian denominations. Out of tens of thousands of different denominations all of them believe The Holy Spirit is teaching and guiding them to understanding. How is it possible that The Holy Spirit is teaching and guiding in so many different directions?......"We must always remember there is an antichrist spirit also in the works." Let’s face it, people do not like to be told they are wrong; and will even defend whatever false beliefs they have to the death.

Anyway you look at it a false is a false. Jesus Christ is the truth not a mixing pot for whatever we choose to drag in. One Way......"The Way.The Truth,The Life." I truly believe we true believers need to be dedicated to weeding out and destroying all falsities. You do not get closer to the truth by mixing a false Jesus doctrine into a false system. It takes The Way and The Truth to cover the sins.

A very reasoned response, ScaRZ.  And don't tell Mike, but I don't do a tree either since I became aware
of the historical argument.  LOL.
But it wasn't out of fear of worshiping a false god other than the blatant commercialism.
Those glaring truths were nauseating to look at and easy to avoid.
That was worth coming out of the traditions and keeping the focus on the Spirit of  celebrating Jesus as I had always found it to be in my heart at Christmas time when the whole world (it seemed) was making a Joyful sound unto the Lord. (not Tammuz)

I don't love God more in December than I do in January or any day.  But to share with the world in HONEST remembrance and song has always lifted my heart, and I wouldn't abandon that. And that's between me and God.  Surely you wouldn't take a tree to be representative of who does and does not have the Holy Spirit.   Or perhaps we should be pulling NT scripture on judging others.
To think on Tammuz is somewhat like saying nobody grew up at all in 2000 years.
What could possibly be more irrelevant to the minds of most Christians than Tammuz.

It's not my place to judge anyone. The Word (Jesus Christ) is our judge.

What does scripture teach?

"There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." (Prov.14:12)


Jesus Christ is The Word and without The Word we are lost. Not just lost in a lost world,but lost eternally. Jesus Christ is "The Way"..........Man sees a different way or different ways,but The Word is The Truth that leads to The Life (Eternal Life). Mans different ways full of their many traditions will in the end only lead to death.

It's not me doing the judging. It's The Word doing the judging.

If a believer and follower in Jesus Christ doesn't believe what is written in scripture then you might as well take the whole Bible and all scripture and toss it in the trash. 

I certainly believe that The Lord will judge every man fairly as it is written in The Books......."And The Book of Life."

I've heard it a hundred times what is implied over and over if a person uses discernment. I will say it again,I don't judge anyone,that is not my job.

Are we not suppose to speak out and warn others that they need to wake up?

Are we not suppose to test the spirits?........If we test them and find they are bad fruit,then what?

1 John 4:1......."Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

Are we not suppose to watch and learn if it's a good fruit or a bad fruit?

Scripture teaches us to stay clear of certain environments and traditions of men,as well as individuals that produce,or will produce bad or evil fruit.

How are we suppose to come to understanding what is or isn't bad or evil fruit without practicing discernment?

After Thousands of years mankind is still doing the same old things,pulling behind them their same old traditions. Flesh is still the same old flesh no matter how you cloth it........"No matter how many years have come and gone."

Colossians 2:8..........."Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

I agree to all you say.   But nothing convinces me that a Christmas tree is idol worship.
And if there's any implication there that the Spirit would say differently, then perhaps to you
He has.  To me He has not.  So, I don't know what that does for the 'discernment' argument.
But I think it must say, you'd best not have one.  But that has nothing to do with me.
So, it's part of a 'tradition'.  Okay.  I'm okay with that Because it's not idol worship.

When Rachael left, her father hunted them down to recover the idols she took, because they were objects of WORSHIP, of 'favor' in their minds.  A source of Power over the circumstances of the world. 

Is that how you look at a Christmas tree?  I can't even say I'm responsible now that I 'know',  because I don't agree with this concept (idol worship)  I'm supposed to 'know'.

And let's try this.  You get rid of the tree?  Did that make you sinless?  Did it even win brownie points, according to scripture.  Or are we all just as 'fallen short' as ever. 

To suggest that someone is committing a sin for worshiping a tree when obviously they are doing no such thing???  What is getting accomplished here?

If the premise is wrong, the conclusion is wrong. But IF you are convicted by it, YES,
absolutely you must follow through.

Dove......I'm not telling you what to do. You as well as anyone else are free to choose for yourselves.

alatians 1:8 Context

⁵To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. ⁶I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: ⁷Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. ⁸But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. ⁹As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. ¹⁰For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. ¹¹But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

Observing pagan celebrations ain't in that gospel that was being preached. Scripture+history =facts...adding ones personal "experience and feelings"= error or worse, heresy

The dude that produced this is a 7th day adventist so any doctrine that he advocates may/may not be tainted by the cult teachings. I have found,though, that when it comes to paganism/catholicism they are pretty damn close to the truth. Mighty close

I do love my brothers in Christ.    If you think a Christmas tree is idol worship, then you have done rightly to avoid it.  And for you, all scripture against idol worship applies.

If anything, I'd go after Santa if you're looking for misplaced worship. 

But I mean seriously, gentlemen, do you know a single person who worships the darned tree?
If I buy a winter blooming poinsettia and put it in my house to enjoy, is that idol worship?  Gaia, perhaps?
If I stop to admire a cardinal on a pine bough against a snowy white background, is that idol worship?
Sending cards to family and friends and thoughts of caring and 'thinking of you', ....
If I light a candle...Catholics light candles constantly, lol....

I'll tell you one thing the Holy Spirit did stop me from doing was burning incense during prayer time!  No explanation given (or needed).
I wasn't trying to accomplish anything by doing that except 'sweeten' the air,  so to speak.
He went SO FAR as to have that particular scent discontinued by the manufacturer-
and it was their biggest seller by far.  But nope, I couldn't get it for ANY reason to be used at ANY time.
He makes his Will known just fine.  So, Follow Him.
Not saying the way Americans remember the birth of Jesus isn't terribly skewed.
I'm only defending my understanding of 'idol worship'.

(You beat me by 1 second, Mike.  Good morning! )

When and where did the custom begin and why did it make it's way into a so called Christian holiday? This is really all I was trying to get across. The tree is what I call a symbol of a pagan practice that can be traced all the way back to Babylon. The tree was a symbol of Nimrod......."The Ever Living Tree." 

People can do with the information as they wish. I'm not here trying to tell someone else what to do or believe. If they want to cut a tree down and put it in their house and put gifts under it,that's up to them. If they want to say........"Who cares......Everybody does it,I see no harm in it at all." They are free to do as they wish. If they want to roll easter eggs......."Go for it!" I'm not attempting to force anything on anyone.

But I do have a right to speak my mind and I do.

ScaRZ said,
"When and where did the custom begin and why did it make it's way into a so called Christian holiday? "


It's true.  there was a blending of the two, which generally we
would absolutely eschew. But 1. is it relevant today, and I think not. The 'old' intent is dead, I feel.   and 
2. could it even have happened with God's knowledge and serve His Purpose of converting the pagan to Christianity, and spreading the knowledge of the Saviour?
Just asking. 


I'm kind of surprised at myself for jumping in, as we've had these discussions (battles at the time) in the past, and they weren't enjoyable then either.


I'm not fond of the flavor of condemnation against what is rightly a tradition,not an object of worship,  based on an ancient pagan society.
What did we expect?  Customs did evolve from those societies. But 'Tammuz' is extremely dead.  I like leaving him there and having NOTHING to do with Christmas today.


There's so much true, horrific evil in the world to try to do something about.  Let those who may make a possible mistake innocently, and with a pure heart, who are considered BLAMELESS in God's eyes, unless we heap condemnation on them and cause them to doubt,  carry on with their joyful memories of their past without us hassling them.


And I too am only expressing my opinion.  And that's definitely enough opinion from me.

If we look back at The Garden we see two trees standing in the middle. I believe these two trees are symbols and are used for the big picture.

Trees are used as symbols thoughout The Bible. The Tree of Life is a symbol of Jesus Christ.

The Ever Living Tree was a symbol of Nimrod. Evergreens often symbolize immortality and eternal life because they retain their leaves throughout the winter (Winter can be used as a symbol of death).

In many religions, trees are said to be homes of spirits.

Nimrod (The Ever Living Tree) is an instead of or replacement (Antichrist) for Jesus Christ (The Tree of Life).

This really is what I was trying to get across. I believe it is something that is very imporant to know. Many people have no idea about any of this.

Scarz, I forgot to include this link in our PM:

https://answeringcatholicclaims.blogspot.com/2018/03/whatever-happened-to-church-at-rome.html