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 The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue May 10, 2022 11:42 am

I did my best to lay out all three views of the prophecy in Daniel 9. Then I made sure to write why I do not believe the "Not yet fulfilled" is correct and why I now rule it out. The other two I can not rule either one of them out.

I see nothing in scripture that in any way points to 7 Years of Tribulation, I see nothing of a 7 Year peace treaty between The Man of Sin and Israel, then The Man of Sin breaking it after 3.5 Years........"And that in Daniel 9 is exactly where those who believe the "Not yet fulfilled" all hang their hats on a signing of a treaty for 7 Years that start the 7 Years of Tribulation." There is no mention of a “peace treaty” that many often insert, nor is there any mention of a rebuilt Jewish temple that many often envision.

“The fact is, Daniel 9:27 says nothing about a future rebuilt temple, nothing about restored sacrifices, nothing about the Antichrist making a covenant with the Jews! There are over 280 references to ‘covenant’ in the scriptures and NOT ONE of them in any way introduces the idea of a covenant being made between the Jews and the Antichrist.” (Ralph Woodrow in Great Prophecies of the Bible).

I agree with Ralph Woodrow. 


If anyone can find the written words anywhere in The Bible (Masoretic, NT, OT or The Septuagint) that says anything about 7 Years of Tribulation please show it to me, I can't find it mentioned anywhere. 

I then gave my opinion, what I believe right now on the subject of Daniel 9. That is what I always try to do on any subject. I never claim to have a complete understanding. I do my very best to not just shoot off at the mouth without posting scripture that points out why I stand where I do at this time.

I attempt to pinpoint verses of scripture, not whole Chapters. Nobody needs to post whole Chapters...."That is way to much in my opinion for a forum." What everyone needs to do however is read it all yourself. Go online or open your Bible and do a complete read of the full Chapter. Study it for yourself, because that in my opinion holds the greatest treasure.

I try and think when I post something, it's like you and I are sitting across from one another talking about the subject. It's so much harder typing it out however on a forum than it is being in the same room with someone and attempting to get your point across. Written words can be easily taken wrong. Certainly people can take you wrong when you are sitting right in front of them, but it multiplies when just reading words typed on a forum.

I never post anything in an attempt to please someone else. I'm not here trying to gain brownie points.


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue May 10, 2022 12:42 pm

What confuses me about this is Daniel 9:27 where he mentions confirming a covenant for 1 week and breaking it halfway thru . I thought the week was  equal to  7 years in biblical language.  I still have a lot of research to do and know very little compared to ya'll. Thanks to each of you for making me think beyond  the print. It's so easy to be deceived  when only looking at the surface..
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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 11, 2022 7:14 am

bordercollie wrote:
What confuses me about this is Daniel 9:27 where he mentions confirming a covenant for 1 week and breaking it halfway thru . I thought the week was  equal to  7 years in biblical language.  I still have a lot of research to do and know very little compared to ya'll. Thanks to each of you for making me think beyond  the print. It's so easy to be deceived  when only looking at the surface..

You are correct Judy, the verse only mentions he puts a stop to sacrifice and grain offering. This is why I see nothing about a peace treaty being signed with Israel and The Man of Sin, and it is then broken by The Man of Sin. This has nothing in my opinion to do with that at all. 

The "He" is Jesus Christ not The Man of Sin as so many are pushing....."To me it's nothing but a false doctrine. "Many who teach a Pre-Trib Rapture attempt to find a way for this "Not yet fulfilled" to fit in their theory. Pre-Trib Rapture teachers force things into this text about a Seven Year Tribulation to begin when the peace treaty is signed. At that moment they believe when it is signed by Israel and The Man of Sin The Rapture takes place and believers are zapped out of here......"Then they say The Seven Year Tribulation begins and all the other poor souls are left behind."

Let me lay it out again and I will show you what I'm talking about. He (Jesus Christ) in the last week that is the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy half way through will die on the cross for our sins. Jesus Christ with his death on the cross "Puts a Stop" to all sacrifices and offerings. Let me break it down a little more and I will add a few of my thoughts into the scripture, and add some other scripture that I believe helps understanding.


This is some of the reasons why I now view Daniel's Prophecy as "Partially fulfilled".

Daniel 9:27, “Then he shall confirm a covenant [‘the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ’ (Gal 3:17)] with many [‘this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many’ (Matt 26:28)] for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering [‘For the law … can never with these same sacrifices … make those who approach perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered?’ (Heb 10:1-2)]. (<– Jesus Christ | The Man of Sin –>) And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate. [‘when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel … then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again (Matt 25:15,21)].”


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 11, 2022 10:27 am

There is no breaking of a covenant in Dan 9:27. It is “confirmed” (strengthened), meaning that it must be something that had already existed or was promised.

In my view, the position which states that a covenant is broken is not supported by the text and is instead presumed, and a presumption that is compounded by another presumption that is nowhere in the text, which is to say, that the ceasing of the sacrifice and offerings is the work of someone other than Jesus Christ.

Many view the 70th week as entirely fulfilled. I can not argue against that position, it was the one the Church held for 19 centuries and very well could be the correct view.

Why I lean towards only 3.5 years fulfilled with 3.5 years remaining however are the two subjects of verse 26 and 27 whereby the second is said to take place in the end “until the consummation” (the full end or complete destruction is poured out on the desolator). I believe this is pointing directly to The Man of Sin.

The consummation of all things will take place at the Second Coming of Christ.

With the repeated descriptions of 3.5 years of “great tribulation” outlined by Daniel and John and referenced by Jesus Christ in Matthew 24 further reinforces for me this position, and also Paul’s reference in 2 Thessalonians 2 of the future revealing of the “man of sin/lawlessness” and his complete destruction at Christ’s coming. 


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu May 12, 2022 5:49 am

Unfortunately, my internet has been down for the last two days(what else is new) and I have not been able to look at the available bible aids online. I have went back and re-read the 70 week prophesy several times in the KJV and the NASB. Many times I have read the scripture and think that I know what it means, only to read it again later and find that I missed something that changed how I looked at it.

I am going to look at the scripture in various versions right now and think on it while I am in the garden this morning before I write anything here. I do think that Scarz may have a point. I had heard this before in a lecture by a 7th Day Adventist but I didn't give it any credence because it went away from the norm. I have wondered how my views, and the mainstream views, could be so different from the Adventists views on Daniel 9. Now, I am not giving much credibility to the 7th Day Adventists at all due to their many heresies, but I remember that lecture even thought it has been at least 25 years since I heard it.

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu May 12, 2022 7:03 am

michael371 wrote:
 I had heard this before in a lecture by a 7th Day Adventist but I didn't give it any credence because it went away from the norm. I have wondered how my views, and the mainstream views, could be so different from the Adventists views on Daniel 9. Now, I am not giving much credibility to the 7th Day Adventists at all due to their many heresies, but I remember that lecture even thought it has been at least 25 years since I heard it.
Just to make this clear....."I am not a Seventh Day Adventist." I have never even watched or listened to The Seventh Day Adventist preach or teach on the subject that I'm posting about that I can remember. Michael I'm not inferring that you think I'm a Seventh Day Adventist. I just want everyone who is reading knows I'm not.


I'm going to bring this up also just to let everybody know where I stand. There is one obvious reality and that is, there is not a single pastor, teacher, author or anyone else who has a complete and perfect understanding of Scripture, and that most surely includes me. Some definitely appear as they think they do, but they do not. Anyone who insist in any way they have a complete understanding of The Bible I will reject them in less than one second.

I try my best to not be confined to one narrow view and carefully study the work of others. Over the years I have found myself no longer believing certain things as I once did. This all was through not being so closed minded. I'm not afraid to read and study in many areas. I never want to be a stuck in the mud believer. I truly believe we are on a never ending growth if we don't become bogged down in traditions of Religious Systems. Once that occurs we will become stagnant........"Growth Ends."


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 13, 2022 6:24 am

In no way was I even considering that you were a 7th Dayer,Scarz, I was just mentioning where I heard this first and how it stuck in my mind even thought I considered it heresy. I have listened to many hours of teachings by 7th Day Adventists because they are excellent in their knowledge on catholicism/vatican history. They have many hersies, one being that Jesus and Michael are one and the same.

I got up late and have to go after I finish this coffee. Its hot down here now and the mornings are all of the time that I have to work in the garden and this afternoon I have to carry my wife to the grocery store but maybe after we get back I can write down what I am thinking may be the correct understanding of Daniel 9. Verse 27 is a hard one to form an answer to if you think your present understanding just might be wrong
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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 13, 2022 6:34 am

Here below is an example of what Michael has pointed out before. One word added, subtracted, or viewed differently by the meaning can totally change the outcome.

The Hebrew text of Daniel 9:27 says that He confirms the covenant “one” week, this in the sense can be taken to mean that the covenant itself only lasts for the duration of “one week”, but then again it can be taken that the confirmation of the covenant is what happens in/within the one week.

“For” isn’t in the original Hebrew text and isn't in the The LXX scriptures (Septuagint)/English Translation renders Daniel 9:27 to say “And one week shall establish the covenant with many”.

Some translations like the Lexham English Bible and the Darby Translation put the word “For” in brackets to let the reader know it isn’t in the original.

We need to be aware that it could just as easily be “in one week” or “for the one week” every bit as much as “for one week.  


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat May 14, 2022 6:20 am

I went to bed early last night,before it got dark, just so I could get up and write this. Its been on my mind an awful lot the last few days because its important to the timing of the rapture and other events. I have looked at many texts on this subject, used my eSword to check word meanings from Strongs and Greek and Hebrew dictionaries. This is complicated and it hinges on not only word meanings, but on the context and I have to admit that the context order is throwing me for a loop. I go to the Septuagint when there is conflict or unclear passages due to the NT being written in Greek and it almost always clarifies the scripture. This is an unusual case, though. The LXX reads differently than the KJV and while my internet was down, I spent a little time with the NASB just reading verses 24-27 over and over and it comes down to one word in the text. Now, as I write this little piece, be aware that I am probably going to ramble around because I am actually thinking out loud and I want to see my thoughts in print, right in front of me. Here is the passage in the LXX:
25. And thou shalt know and understand, that from the going forth of the command for the answer and for the building of Jerusalem, until Christ the prince, there shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks; and then the time shall return, and the street shall be built, and the wall, and the times shall be exhausted. 
26. And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations. 
27. And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of the time an end shall be put to the desolation.

Here now, is the KJV of the same:

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

See the word? The troubling word is "with" in verse 26. I have looked at many other versions concerning these 3 verses, but I don't trust them at all except for the Geneva Version and I find the Wycliff translation really interesting. Verse 27:

27 Forsooth one week of years shall confirm the covenant to many men, and the offering and sacrifice shall fail in the midst of the week of years; and abomination of desolation shall be in the temple, and the desolation shall continue till to the performing and end. (And one week of years shall confirm the covenant to many people, and the offering and the sacrifice shall be stopped in the midst of the week of years; and the abomination that maketh desolation shall be placed in the Temple, and the desolation shall continue until the performing and the end of it.


The RSV makes it plain and is clear that the first 3 1/2 weeks deal with Christ's ministry. BUT, is that correct?:


And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

 Its obvious that there are two different people in this verse, one being Christ and after he is cut off, the desolator, or antichrist.

One more from the Orthodox Jewish Version and it may be the clearest context:

26 And after threescore and two heptads, yikaret (will be cut off) Moshiach [Yeshayah 53:8], but not for himself [Yeshayah 53:4-6,8]; and the troops of the coming nagid shall destroy the Ir and the Kodesh (Beis Hamikdash, i.e., 70.C.E.); and the end thereof shall come with a flood, and unto the end there shall be war. Desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm brit (covenant) with rabbim for one heptad; and in the midst of the heptad he shall cause the zevach and the minchah to cease, and on the kenaf (wing) of the abominations is one making desolate, even until the complete destruction, a destruction that is decreed, shall be poured out upon the Shomem (Desolator, Destroyer).


 It all boils down to who the "he" is and after making my brain hurt going over these different versions,trying to read languages that I don't understand and thrashing it around in this porous old head, I may have only confused myself. Scarz, I see your point. Since the english language is derived from Greek, it would make sense that the rules of grammar should apply similarly to each. If so, the primary subject is the Messiah, the "he" would be Him since the focus and continuation is on the "people of the prince that is to come" and then it shifts back to the singular "he." If that is the case, then your view would appear to be correct. If that is not the case, then the focus would be on the "prince" and he would be the "he" who would stop the sacrifices in a  middle of a seven year period.


 I am going to put this on hold and let it play out. I can't change my views on something that I am not sure of because there are just too many variances in the many different translations. If I stick to the LXX, then it would be possible to take your stance. I will take all of this with me for now and wait.



Scarz, just saying that you are correct for a moment, antichrist could appear at anytime, without any warning. We have heard for decades about a 3 1/2 year peace but the bible says that men will cry "peace and safety" and that there will be none and that would indicate that there is no 3 1/2 years of peace and the only place where a sacrifice could be made was on the altar inside of the temple. This is all evidence in your views favor.


 I have no answer. I am just not proficient enough to sort it all out because of the variances in translations, but I damn sure ain't disregarding your views mainly because it makes sense. I found this to be one of the more interesting subjects in a long time, so thanks for that. I am going to focus on this for a while when Listening to teachings and lectures and just see what shakes out of the tree. Got to go now.

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat May 14, 2022 7:34 am

Michael.....I've learned many things while studying Bible Prophecy, and I would have to say that the number one thing I have learned is that Prophecy is "Cryptic". I truly believe this is "God's Cryptic Strategy". God does not want everyone to understand it. We forget there is a mighty spiritual war going on, and has been for a long time. Would God want his enemies to know every detail?......."I most certainly believe he would not."

Ephesians 6:12........"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places."



1 Corinthians 2:7-8


but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;


the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory;


I would say most people when reading the two verses above in 1 Corinthians 2 only think of "Human Rulers", but I think this is speaking very much also to the rulers of this age who are not human but are as Ephesians 6:12 points out are "Spiritual Forces of Evil in The Heavenly Places".

If they had understood every detail of Prophecy they would have never killed Jesus. They would have won big time,  because the death on the cross would have failed to take place, and no forgiveness for sins would have entered the big picture.


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 15, 2022 5:58 am

I went back to my 6th grade English class where we learned about sentence structure and how to diagram sentences and used that on Daniel 9. I can almost quote word for word the various bible versions of verses 24-27 but I just finished the breaking down the NASB reading, and there is no denying that it appears to say that the first 3 1/2 years of the last week of Daniels 70 weeks has passed and that we are in the middle of the week. By removing the verses and just reading it like a book, it seems to me that the subject remains on the Messiah and that he is the one  that shall confirm the covenant, not antichrist. The Septuagint does seem to say the same. Very good work, Scarz. Looks like I am going to have to revise a bit of my prophesy foundation. I am not finished checking, and I want to hear some really smart people lecture on this, but my question is, "how could so many have gotten this so wrong?"

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 15, 2022 9:37 am

I believe most prophecy teachers of today line up with a seven year tribulation period and a complete future fulfillment of the 70th week of Daniel. I was brought up teething on Traditional Dispensationalism which taught a seven year tribulation that needs to begin after a Pre-Trib Rapture. Every teacher I listened and read their material "Always" went straight to Daniel 9 to pull a seven year tribulation out of the text.

I once held that view but to be totally honest I never was all that comfortable with it. The more I began to read scripure for myself, the more I moved away from that view of things. To me there are just too many of those ideas that do not fit after years of study. I'm not saying that all that teach a seven year tribulation believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture......"But a great many do."

I will tell everybody that I no longer believe in a Seven Year Tribulation (I believe in 3.5 years of Great Tribulation that are to be fulfilled), or a Seven Year Peace Treaty with Israel and The Man of Sin =The Antichrist ( I see no treaty at all), or a Not Yet Fulfilled 70th Week of Daniel (I now lean towards a Partially Fulfilled=3.5 years), or a Pre-Trib Rapture (I believe in a meeting in the air at The Last Trumpet/Seventh), or All Seven Seals remaining to be broken (I now believe The First 5 Seals have been broken and have for many years).


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 15, 2022 10:01 am

The LORD God doesn't only use Believers and Followers to fulfill his will. 
 
Isaiah uses the term mashiach or messiah (anointed) for Cyrus, who is revealed as God's "anointed" in Isaiah 45:1.

Thus says the LORD to Cyrus His anointed,
Whom I have taken by the right hand,
To subdue nations before him
And to loose the loins of kings;
To open doors before him so that gates will not be shut:

Through King Cyrus II of Persia a pagan king The LORD God uses Cyrus to fulfill his will. God can use who he chooses to steer things in a desired direction. As scripture points out........"My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord" {Isa. 55:8}.

God delivered His people from their physical exile, sending them home through King Cyrus.


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 15, 2022 11:04 am

Think how cryptic God was in The OT to keep not only evil men from understanding, but also those evil dark forces. The Pharisees who studied the scriptures didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah. God did not want them to know, or he would have revealed it to them.

Many places in The OT that point to Jesus as The Messiah they did not see because of their blindness. They were blind in darkness because they were of the world and of their father The Devil. What did Jesus Christ refer to them as in The NT?........"Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? {Matthew 23:33}

Think now to the world we live in today. Has anything really changed in this world, is this world any better than that world?........"Still evil men, and still the same evil dark forces at work." I think we now have our answer to why God uses a Cryptic Strategy in Prophecy. 

God will reveal when he chooses, to who he chooses. 


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 20, 2022 9:41 am

Jesus Christ spoke in parables to both disguise and reveal the truth. I have a strong feeling eschatology works much in the same way. One example for me is that of Babylon The Great.

The Biblical concept of "Babylon The Great" I believe is much larger than just a single city. Over the years I've come to view Babylon The Great as a spiritual symbol for the total wickedness of the nations of the world, not as one literal city or one specific nation.


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 20, 2022 12:50 pm

I think the US looks more and more like Babylon every day.  The old values are melting away .
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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat May 21, 2022 7:10 am

bordercollie wrote:
I think the US looks more and more like Babylon every day.  The old values are melting away .
 
The USA is no doubt a big piece of the pie. Babylon The Great is a corrupt world system that has infiltrated the world. Think of Babylon in these end times as "Egypt of The OT", that now all of God's people, both Jew and Gentile, are to come out of. Moses lead The OT Exodus, while Jesus Christ is leading the NT Exodus. Both the Old Exodus and the New Exodus have one goal "The Promised Land". When "ALL" is finally fulfilled it leads to the promised land of "The New Jerusalem".

We all live in this world but we are not to be "OF THE WORLD", we are not to "LOVE THE WORLD, we are not to "LOVE THE THINGS OF THE WORLD".

1 John 2:15........"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

John 15:19........"If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you."

If anybody (Male or Female) "Loves The World" they love all the things that Babylon offers. 


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2022 6:06 am

Hey ya'll, I have been a little busy as of late, not to mention old. I have been so tired when I went to bed that I could not get up in time to write anything worth reading, not that I ever do that anyway. Heat,weeds and onions have kept me busy for the last week. Ya'll need any onions? I had my best crop in my gardening history this year. Massive size and it seems like every one that I set out made a big onion. Thats rare. They looked like clones all lined up in the rows. Now, I'm dealing with much needed rain as well as humidity and that means weeds. I don't have to work this hard but Joe Bidens America scares me. My wife and I can survive for years with our food and water supply, but most can't survive over two weeks. I'm convinced that we are about to see things collapse and the great reset take place which results into the anti-christ system, the Nimrodian Kingdom, come to power.

I see things much the same as most of you do. Kinda' like an overview, from a distance while factoring in all of the known facts to form a picture. I see the construction of a worldwide Babylon taking place, the seemingly total disdain for the individual and the formation of of a system of propaganda to rule over the collective.

At one time, I did not expect to see the return of Christ in my lifetime. I do now, even though I am about to be 68 years old, and I don't mean at my death,either. This stuff is snowballing down the hill at a speed that I really find hard to fathom. I can't believe how many seemingly intelligent folks have been deceived by the power brokers and the media into believing this ridiculous crap. They,without much doubt, are reprobates. A reprobate is a person without hope or even a realization of salvation. A child of their father the devil, insane and oblivious to the goodness of God. The Pharisees were a perfect example to this. Having a form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof. I am seeing a lot of "religion" but not any "Jesus" and Jesus seems to be a vulgarity nowadays.

I rambled around too much but I see the beat of Rev. 13 taking shape. From the sacrifice of the unborn to the worship of the sun hidden in the vatican, the pieces are being fitted together. Factor in the web of surveillance and control in the financial world and you get a scary picture forming by the fitted pieces,don'cha?

The British preacher has 3 very good, outstanding really, teachings on Rev 13. He backs up my position concerning genetics, as well as the return of the Watchers, about as well as I have heard. Things have taken on a supernatural element that is just hard for this ole redneck to grasp.

Daylight now, so I have to grab a hoe before things heat up.

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2022 7:39 am

michael371 wrote:
Joe Bidens America scares me. My wife and I can survive for years with our food and water supply, but most can't survive over two weeks. I'm convinced that we are about to see things collapse and the great reset take place which results into the anti-christ system, the Nimrodian Kingdom, come to power.

Every time I see Biden and listen to him, I don't believe he is really there. In my opinion he needs to step down as President. He says things and it appears to me he doesn't know what he just said. There is no way this man needs to be in or near The White House. I think we all understand others are running the show. They just prop him up for show, but it's time for the show to be canceled.


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2022 9:48 am

These are just some of my thoughts, views, opinions and beliefs on a subject that I view  differently than I once did. 

Revelation 17 contains a lot of deep information. The great whore is described as a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, arrayed in purple and scarlet, adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, and on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH........drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. 

Revelation 17:1-6

Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters,

with whom the kings of the earth committed acts of immorality, and those who dwell on the earth were made drunk with the wine of her immorality."

And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.

The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality,

and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, "BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.


The color scarlet represents Sin as written in Isaiah 1:18........"Though your sins are as scarlet".

Isaiah 1:18

"Come now, and let us reason together,"
Says the LORD,
"Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.


The color scarlet was also one of the colors that was associated with the materials used in the construction of the Temple, the dwelling place of God, which is described in Exodus 26.

Exodus 26:1........"Moreover thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work shalt thou make them." 


When reading The New Testament we can see in several places that The Temple of God is no longer defined in terms of one that was made of stone, but rather as one made of believers in Christ Jesus (The Church).

1 Corinthians 3:16........"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

1 Corinthians 3:17........"If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple."


The Man of Sin comes to destroy our temples, what is meant to be a dwelling place of God. The Man of Sin is the seed of Satan (The Adversary) and the goal is to dwell in our temples in place of God. As it says in 1 Corinthians 3:17........"If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him." (God will one day destroy both the The Man of Sin and The Adversary.)

There are two major spirits at work, The Spirit of God (The Holy Spirit) and The Spirit of Antichrist.

Luke 11:13........"If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

1 John 4:3........"and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world."



Ephesians 2:19-22

So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household,

having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,

in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,

in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.


We all have a temple, but who is it that dwells within us?


The True Church (The Body of Christ)= The Temple of God.  

The False Church (The Body of Antichrist)= The Synagogue of Satan.

The True Church is like "a bride adorned for her husband".

The False Church is like "a harlot decked with gold and precious stones and pearls"......."with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.” (They have become intoxicated by the desires/lust of the flesh.)

Some people believe they can/will just ride the fence....."But can/will they?"


The Spirit of Antichrist will take seat (take up residence) inside what was created to be The Temple of God, and by deception will become the filler (The Dweller) of their temples, and will become their god. 

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 25, 2022 6:01 am

Examine all of the scripture that you posted here very closely. We know that the false church started with Nimrod with the Tower, so it is not the harlot church more than likely, but the false religion of antichrist. A harlot is a woman who uses her body for immoral purposes, and a lot of times for financial gain. So the harlot would seem to reason to be a church that once had the natural affections and then went through a change of heart. There is one that fits that to a "tee" and it has the elements that scripture describe down to the last jot and tittle.

Look at the vatican. Same colors, same philosophy of getting in bed with kings, responsible for the death of literally millions of believers (see Foxes Book of Martyrs), has installed a man who"stands in place of Christ" and is worshiped on a worldwide basis. The vatican is the only place on earth that is both a country that operates on religion. Roman catholicism has went from belief to apostasy, from Christ to anti-christ, in its history of despotism. Their desire is Jerusalem. Catholics are some of the most brainwashed people on the planet, on par with the Ishmaelites, and they can't see that their system is in direct conflict with what scripture says. The pope overruling scripture? Get that stuff outa' here! Unfortunately, its true.

Here is an interesting idea to ponder. The scripture points directly at Jerusalem as the focal point at the end, before the return of the Lord. SOOO,is it possible that there might be an unholy marriage between Israel and Rome, with an abomination of a pope appointed ( they all are abominations, but one worse than normal)? The popes are already worshiped by the catholic masses. Look at the practices of rituals and non-scriptual dogma. Absolutely looks like paganism more than Jesus to me.

A lot of stuff would have to change to have this scenario take place, but its fodder to chew on for a while.

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 25, 2022 6:43 am

Michael......I think you have not understood what I was trying to get across. Yes! it all had it's beginning at Babylon. It's not just about The Catholics.

In my opinion way too much of the focus on end times prophecy by teachers and preachers is on Rome and Europe. In my opinion the focus needs to turn in the direction eastward of Rome and Europe. That's where I see the picture has been in the past, and will be for the revealing of the man of sin......."Not Rome and Europe."

Mother Harlot is big mama,  she is not alone, she has produced offspring that have branched out into The World. Remember she is the mother of "Harlots". Tens of Thousands of false systems all lead back to Mother.

"BABYLON THE GREATTHE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 25, 2022 10:35 am

I've been reading all the verses of scripture that are speaking of The Book of Life. One very interesting thing is nowhere in The Bible does it ever mention "Names being "Added" to The Book of Life".


It mentions "Names that are written in The Book of Life/Names in The Book of Life".

Philippians4:3........"Indeed, true companion, I ask you also to help these women who have shared my struggle in the cause of the gospel, together with Clement also and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life."

Revelation 20:12........"And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds."

Revelation 21:27........"and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life."


It mentions "Take away his part out of The Book of Life"......"If you overcome your name will not be blotted out of The Book of Life".

Revelation 3:5........"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

Revelation 22:19........"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."



It mentions "Whose names are/were not written in The Book of Life"......"whosoever was not found written in The Book of Life".

Revelation 13:8........"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Revelation 17:8........"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

Revelation 20:15........"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."


I believe it points to all names have been written in The Book of Life........Except those written about in Revelation 13:8, 17:8 and 20:15. 

It certainly appears to me that these people during the years of The Beast that worship/serve and received The Mark of The Beast "From the foundation of the world never had their names written in The Book of Life". It seems pretty straightforward to me that the Lamb’s Book of Life has itself existed since the world was spoken into existence. 

I'll mention it again, I see no evidence that anyone's name will ever be "Added" to The Book of Life. 


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu May 26, 2022 6:41 am

ScaRZ wrote:
Revelation 13:8........"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Revelation 17:8........"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

Revelation 20:15........"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."


I believe it points to all names have been written in The Book of Life........Except those written about in Revelation 13:8, 17:8 and 20:15. 

It certainly appears to me that these people during the years of The Beast that worship/serve and received The Mark of The Beast "From the foundation of the world never had their names written in The Book of Life". It seems pretty straightforward to me that the Lamb’s Book of Life has itself existed since the world was spoken into existence. 

I'll mention it again, I see no evidence that anyone's name will ever be "Added" to The Book of Life. 

I've been thinking and reading over and over all the verses that pertain to the subject of The Book of Life in the above post of mine. I need to go back and rethink the words I wrote.....That are colored Blue.

I should have never used the word never or the words all names have been written in The Book of Life........Except 

The written words of the verses of scripture not one time used the word "Never", this was just my thinking of what I thought it meant. Same thing goes with my use of the words "All names have been written in The Book of Life.......Except".

The verses could be taken as John viewing the open Book of Life and not seeing the names written there at that point in time......"Not that they were 'Never' there." This again is a prime example of how just a simple word can change the picture.

At this moment in time John was taken to........"the names could have already been blotted out (Removed)."

The question is........"When will names be blotted out/removed from The Book of Life?"..........Three things come to my mind.....At death.....The Judgement.....When someone worships the beast as well as his image and receives the mark of the beast.

I see a strong case that everyone's name was written in The Book of Life from the foundation of the world. There is no reason for names to be added, but they can be removed (blotted out). 

There is one thing that appears to me, when all is said and done "Believers" will be given a new name.

Revelation 2:17........"The one who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows except the one who receives it."


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 27, 2022 5:19 am

The rich fat cats who sit in the penthouse could care less about anyone but themselves. In their eyes we are not on their level. They see themselves as kings, while only tolerating the rest of us as lowly peasants. They desire more and more "Control".



      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 27, 2022 5:43 am

Scarz, I knew exactly what you meant. My thoughts were on how Catholicism is the modern day version of the Mystery religion. Although its not precisely Nimrods religion, it has so many aspects of it that it might as well be. I did an extension research into catholicism and its history. Its goal is world domination and will do anything necessary to achieve that goal. Their Christ is not Jesus of Nazareth but Tammuz of the worship of the sun.

The Lambs Book of Life was written before the foundation of the earth. Revelation 13:8:
"all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain."


The names were written before the world was formed. Predestination at its finest. God "declared the end form the beginning" everything that happens was ordained by God at the time of creation. Pretty simple
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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 27, 2022 6:11 am

michael371 wrote:
The names were written before the world was formed. Predestination at its finest. God "declared the end form the beginning" everything that happens was ordained by God at the time of creation. Pretty simple

Okay! Let me see if I totally get what you're saying........"There is no free will"........"Only the elect are saved".

If by using the word "Ordained"...... Your view is that God commanded everything to be in a precise order as he commanded, and that is how it would occur......Every single act and event. This would leave out free will entirely. If you are saying that......."I disagree totally".


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 29, 2022 7:35 am

Psalm 69:28........"May they be blotted out of the book of life
And may they not be recorded with the righteous."

If they can be blotted out, then it certainly appears to me that they had to be in.

Think also what is written in Revelation 3:5........"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."........Jesus Christ has promised us in His Word that all those “who overcome shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.” If this verse is true, "Which I Believe It Is", then the inverse is also true: He who does not overcome will have his name blotted out of the Book of Life, and Jesus Christ will not confess their name before the Father and before His angels.

1 John 2:2........"and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."

Jesus Christ at the foundation of the world was the blood sacrifice for the whole world. All could be saved if they "Believe and continue to Believe". 

2 Peter 3:9........"the Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."

God is very patient and doesn't want anyone to perish, but hopes all will repent.

John 3:16-17


"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.



Just because God foreknows the end "And I Do Believe That", does not mean he forces some to believe and forces others to not believe. God wants us to love him, just as he loves us. But without free will, it's impossible......"Love is given and received by free will". God from the very beginning knew that a free will creation would fail...."We were going to screw up." That's the reason the blood of The Lamb of God was already in the works at the very beginning. 


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 29, 2022 9:15 am

Predestination and Election - Book of Life | Michael Heiser


Can you be erased or your name be blotted out from the Book of Life?  Dr. Michael Heiser says, "yes".  

Heiser points out that Israel was the elect chose people of God, but that doesn't mean every Israelite was saved and went to heaven.  In fact, he says that most probably didn't because they went apostate.  They turned away from Yahweh.

You can be part of an elect group, i.e. Israel.  But you still have to believe.  You still have to give your believing loyalty or "allegiance" as Matthew Bates calls it, to Jesus.





      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 29, 2022 9:29 am

I enjoy Michael Heiser . Thanks for the link Scars.
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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 29, 2022 9:42 am

bordercollie wrote:
I enjoy Michael Heiser . Thanks for the link Scars.
I say it with all my heart, Michael Heiser is the very best teacher I've ever read and listened to......."I love Michael Heiser". 

Here is another video that I just now watched and Boy! does it hit home for me.

SCARY NEWS: God Chooses Some People For HELL...Or DOES He?




Election is typically defined today as; God chooses who's going to be saved. And some people will then, therefore, state what is probably an obvious corollary; he chooses the people that aren't saved, that go to hell or whatever. So you either have predestination, or you have double predestination. And I don't care about any of that, because I think it's a fundamental misunderstanding of election. If you raise the question; was Israel elect? It's kind of a no brainer, of course, they were elect. They're chosen. And then the other nations are not chosen. Should we define then election as salvation, so we can therefore assume that because Israel was elect, the Israelites were also elect, and then they're all saved, right? At that moment, you might have some kind of suspect that we might have a problem here. And they have a huge problem because there's something in biblical history called the Exile. Election is not about salvation. Those two things are not synonymous. I think we fundamentally misunderstood this.


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon May 30, 2022 7:13 am

No humans have ever been created that were perfect. Even The Adversary (Satan), The Sons of God, The Watchers, The Messengers (Angels) were not a product of perfection. Does this mean that all of them have sinned/failed....."No it doesn't." But they can, because they are not perfect. Some have sinned/failed, and we know that from reading scripture. 

Was creation perfect?......"No it wasn't." Just read what is written in The Bible after the sixth day of ceation.........Genesis 1:31........"God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day." 

It was very good, not perfect.

Angels, Sons of God were created to Image God (Imagers of God) before mankind came into the picture.

Without mankind having free will how could we have been created "Imagers of God"?......"God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.[Genesis 1:27]........God is 100% free will.

There is no way humans could Image God, be (Imagers of God) without free will. We humans are suppose to function in the capacity of God’s representatives here on Earth, to represent God and God's character. Jesus was the ultimate Imager of God. As is written in Hebrews 1:3...."He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature".......Jesus never sinned/never failed but all of humanity have sinned/failed. All believers are destined to be conformed to the Image of Christ. 


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 02, 2022 1:50 pm

Knock, knock.  Hi.  Can I float this by you.  We know evil is ancient, and has 'taken over' many during the centuries.

But there is one battle that comes up consistently while following q, and that is the Jesuits vs
the Templars.  And I don't have much detail on the Templars.  We know the Good.
We know of their suffering.  We've heard terrible stories describing satanism, as well. 

The Jesuits we know pretty well.  And that reverts to the Vatican-certainly the enemy of God/Jesus/and True Israel.   And even there one could make the case that they are so infiltrated by
the rabbi's teachings and secular Israel that finding a true Jew in Israel could be difficult.

So, I saw this:

The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 FUQ-8xTX0AIzhLG?format=jpg&name=large
.The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 FUQ-8_EWIAEM4ci?format=jpg&name=900x900
The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 FUQ-9L9WIAAFqHZ?format=jpg&name=large


           
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            A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience              
                  


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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 02, 2022 1:55 pm

So..the enemies of Christ that might fit under the Jesuit banner-and there will be many downstream-
who do the bidding of the Vatican.

But how many can be 'named' as Jesuit. Mohammed, Loyola, the high level Masons? 

Can you do anything with this?

I mean, that there would be an endtimes consolidation of power under the NWO, 
under secularism, are the Jesuits a unifying factor?


           
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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03, 2022 6:39 am

@Dove

I have not studied much about The Jesuit's. I read some of Malachi Martin's material and listened to him years ago on Coast to Coast Radio. Malachi was originally ordained as a Jesuit priest. He died in 1999 from a head injury after falling. Malachi Martin's 1989 book published by Simon and Schuster The Keys of This Blood goes deep into the ambitions of the papacy. One quote on the cover of the book........"untold story behind the Vatican's role in today's winner-take-all race against time to establish, maintain, and control the first one-world government. " 


Two quotes in the book that relate to a one world government.

"don't really mind what sort of government a country has, provided that they can pay their bills." 

 "if tomorrow or next week, by a sudden miracle, a one-world government were established, the Church would not have to undergo any essential structural change in order to retain its position and to its aims."  


Just a thought of mine.....The endgame goal has always been to use honey to draw, but once they have you, it would be a resurrection of the bitter old hardline empire.



Michael with his knowledge into Catholicism would be the one who could add great depth to this topic.


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03, 2022 6:55 am

Thanks ScaRZ.  I suppose there's no need to identify further or deeper than what is currently 

in our faces.  But all those who warned before, that we looked at, had great insight.


           
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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 04, 2022 12:32 pm

From my recent post, I just ran into this dated today.

Illuminati=
Jesuits
Bilderberg
--
Fascists=socialists=antifa=Communist=Nazi=Zionists=Khazars=
Pedophiles=Pedowood/
Hollywood=satan's repto adrenochrome junkies

https://twitter.com/Rubberchic069/status/1533125216255221760/video/1

And a look back to 1949 forward, where all the same stuff was going on 

https://twitter.com/Rubberchic069/status/1533095451230101505/video/1


           
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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 05, 2022 9:07 am

Jesus Christ will return as a thief in the night, but most of the population won't be looking for him, they will not be awake and watching....." The World will be asleep."

This whole story will play out much like the parable of the ten virgins. Five virgins had oil in their lamps and were prepared for Jesus Christ (Their Bridegroom) at his coming. These five virgins were awake and watching with lamps full of oil.  They knew the signs of his soon arrival and were prepared as The Bride ready to go out and meet their Bridegroom at his coming. 

The other five virgins had no oil in their lamps they were not prepared to go and meet the bridegroom. They were not watching, they did not recognize the signs of his soon arrival. How long had all the oil been burned out of their lamps? How long had they been sleeping?

Think about the time of Noah's Ark. Once the door was closed on The Ark, the time for entering was over. Same thing with the five virgins with no oil in their lamps. They did not have more time to run out and  buy oil ........."Now it was too late, The Door was closed." 


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 06, 2022 11:02 am

There has been to this point in time three major falls, not just one. 

The first was the fall of Adam and Eve in Eden. They chose to disobey God and consumed the fruit from The Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil. They were removed from The Garden of Eden and kept from returning. They now at this point in time had no access to The Tree of Life. A line in the sand had been drawn and there was no turning back. The land of the clay Adam was formed from was now their home.

The second was The Watchers (Sons of God) coming to earth and having offspring with women of this earth....."In time this leads us to the flood in the days of Noah." The Watchers chose their path and corrupted themselves, their mates, their offspring, and the vast majority of mankind and the creatures of this earth. Judgement from God was placed upon them and once again there was no turning back for them. 

The third was the building of the Tower of Babel that leads us to people being scattered and divided into nations ruled by Sons of God that would soon become corrupt. God eventually disinherited the nations. These Sons of God in ruling over the nations resulted in their judgement in Psalms 82. These corrupt Sons of God will not rule forever but in time will come to death as does mankind. The line was drawn again and there was no return for them. 

Nimrod was the ruler that was responsible for the building of The Tower of Babel. The Tower was believed to be a connection between earth and heaven. The act of building The Tower was seen as a form of rebellion against God. Nimrod was a “Mighty Warrior” or “Gibbor” like the Nephilim. After the flood more offspring (Nephilim, Giants) had to be exterminated once again before things got out of hand. 


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 07, 2022 9:59 am

This video is a prime example of what Jesus Christ said in Luke 12:51-53, how the TRUTH will divide and separate. Be sure and watch the whole video.

Luke 12:51-53

Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division;

for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.

They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.





      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 08, 2022 5:40 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qno4H6zc3S0
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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09, 2022 6:40 am

Michael I watched the video you posted above and he brought up many topics we have talked about on the forum. The dark forces fear any of this subject matter because it pulls the curtain back and reveals them. The light shines on them......"They hate the light". They scurry quickly closing the curtain that seals the darkness around them. There is one thing certain, the vast majority of people scurry to remain in darkness right along side of them. What does scripture teach us........"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil."......." For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed." ( John 3:19-20)


The offspring of The Fallen Sons of God were marked/sealed by their corrupt DNA that was given to them by their fathers. The offspring were corrupt hybrids that had no chance of being saved. The very spirits of these hybrids were totally demonic. 

This could demonstrate that those who worship/serve and receive The Mark of The Beast have a corrupt condition that it terminates any chance of them being saved as it did of those in The Days of Noah. 

I have for a long time thought the words of Jesus Christ written in the verses in Matthew 24 posted below could mean something much more than how most of us have taken them. Think back how terrible it was in The Days of Noah, but the days Jesus Christ is teaching us about are to be even worse. This all could be pointing to a time that if the days were not shortened the condition that flesh would reach would terminate it from having any opportunity of being saved.

Matthew 24:21-22


For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 12, 2022 6:29 am

Finally, I am able to do something that does not involve dirt but I am really not complaining. Lots of people that are my age are not able to do what I have been doing. So far, we have had a bumper crop of everything and I can't get the proverbial "7 years of plenty and 7 years of famine" out of my mind. My wife is dehydrating everything,even cabbage and potatoes and sealing them in jars. She said that if the Lord does come back and get us pre-trib, someone else who is fleeing or hiding can survive on it. She is still kinda' stuck on a pre-trib rapture, but if Scarz is correct about the first half being fulfilled already, then she may be on to something. I am much more open to both lines of thought, after looking into it with various translations, than I was.

 I am almost  caught up with the garden. Look, I used to work this garden, yard and help clean house and I did it with ease. Not now. I am an old man in more ways than one and if I am absent for a while than I am very busy and tired, or I am dead,lol. I appreciate Scarz checking on me, kinda' like holding a mirror over my face to see if I am still breathing.

 I have often wondered, as have millions of others, about the fate of the USA in prophesy. Lots of theories and speculation exist and about all of them have to twist and turn scripture to make their idea work, including me. By watching current events and having a working knowledge of scripture I think a person can see only two options: 1: the USA is the last days Babylon and leads the charge for the anti-christ kingdom 2: the USA ceases to exist in its present form. I was a #1 guy until about 2 weeks ago and then I took a real look around, read a few things and listened to several folks and I think that #2 is much more probable. The god of this world has been allowed to place his minions in positions of power throughout the government and the attacks on believers has escalated. The push for "clean energy" is laughable considering that the power grid cannot handle the increase in demand. Out there where researcher lives in Fagafornia, they have outages all of the time, as well as water shortages. What happens now after these unworkable projects become a reality? Plus, cow farts are killing us so they are destroying the beef industry. I am sure that it was a coincidence that the two largest wheat producers were goaded into a war with each other. Npw, the imbecile-in-chief decides to add 5% corn alchohol to gas making it unusable to a whole bunch of cars and farm vehicles. Oh, and that brilliant decision comes on heels of farmers in the midwest planting soybeans instead of corn due to the massive cost increase with fuel and fertilizer. Soybeans take little fertilizer compared to corn.

Remember the covid checks? That was a deliberate plan to cause an inflation jolt. It worked and now the supply chain is in crisis due mainly to fact that nobody wants to work. The reprobates created a baby that wants a government titty. Revelation 6:

"
And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."


 Now, there have been wars and famines throughout history since the time of Nimrod and the Babel kingdom/religion but what it looks like now is there is something behind this push to weaken the nations into being in a position where there is no other recourse but to submit to a system of evil just to survive.( the GREAT RESET?) In order for this to happen the US must be brought down to the level of France or maybe Somalia, who knows, but the Constitution and Bill of Rights must be destroyed for the whole world to fall under the antichrist. Revelation 6:6 makes it clear that a man will toil all day just to scrape up enough to eat. That can be an illustration of of a scarcity of food due to various natural factors or it also could be due to a collective form of harsh communism. We would call that Marxism.



The situation that people should worry about the most is the forming of the Corporatocracy, better known as facism. Scarz, you said once before that you didn't follow me on the rise of Facism in the final kingdom. Now, do you see what I meant? Corporations are forcing people to accept the policies of the government or lose their jobs. Sorta' like 'causing one to accept the mark that allows one to buy and sell and EAT. Its not there yet but its damn close and actually all that it needs is the revealing of the anti-christ.


 Much more to write but I have to go out now. The dogs are dancing that dance.

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 12, 2022 8:51 am

Great to read some of your thinking again Michael. I really see the USA becoming in focus for some to see what has been at work for years. The birth of the internet has created a much quicker route to decline. 

The goal is to break the spirit, take away independence, make them dependent, crush the will. Once wild horses, now broken. 

We are not waiting for “The Tribulation” to begin, we are in it. It's time to wake up, because as we go forward it's going to get harder and harder to endure. Nobody can be half asleep and expect to make it to the finish line........"Half asleep is a destination of failure." 

As the revelation (revealing) continues, it will increase in swiftness until the final outcome. Mankind is about to pay a great price for believing the BIG LIE. Most eyes will be blind and unable to see, they will be asleep in their minds. A falling away and deception has been playing out for a very long time. The vast majority of people will hunger and thirst for the True Word. 

Protect your Temple with everything you have because the destroyer comes with full intent for it's destruction.

John 10:10 "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy."


Think back how The LORD would send his prophets, their words (The Word of God) would be rejected and what followed after turning away from The Truth, was false gods-false prophets, war, famine and pestilence. Now look at where we are today, same story isn't it?


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 12, 2022 4:11 pm

Great posts  !   I needed this  encouragement , We know the evil one roams the earth and is after any weakness he finds in us.  I fight  my weaknesses  constantly and  somedays it's very hard not to let the bad get to me. 
  I  also do think that we are living in those times now.  Evil is growing  so fast even in my little once innocent piece of the world . I can  actually see it coming here... In Texas,  my niece in law is afraid to get gas or groceries now even in the "good" part of Houston . 
  We  absolutely had to do some cow work today  because of the onslaught of the high temperatures There's this little  country church with at  the most 70 members present only at special gatherings- usually about 35-40. It has services  about once a month .. Well , we drove by today.  They had a policeman there.... never ever had seen this before ... so very sad . My heart fell and I knew it was but yet another confirmation of things to come.  
  We have to put special tags in cattle ears that are being sold out of state. These tags are id tags with a computer readable ID. We are told more such tracking  is on the way. 

 I ask the Lord to put a hedge of protection around us here and to keep our eyes open . We need You.
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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2022 5:49 am

You know what? My biggest concern in these treacherous days is not so much as to what is happening but the lack of understanding from people as to what is happening. Most folks have a general knowledge of bible prophesy ( a lot of it wrong) but to see all of the fine tuning being done in front of their noses, they simply can't put it together.

There is a lady who we give stuff from the garden. Real nice, Godly woman, but she will never be a candidate for MENSA. I prodded her a couple of years ago on the bible, and although she enters the church door every time that they unlock them, the Southern Baptist Association did her no favors when it came to knowing scripture meanings. She talks with my wife a lot and maybe thats where the question entered her mind. So, she cooks for her family every Sunday and she asked them" why are the billionaires buys up all of the farm land?" and the obvious answer that one of us would give never came up. They centered around money-making, but it had dawned on her that it would allow control of the food markets and availability. Even as slow as she is, she is getting it but so many are not and think things will just go back. Not this time, I'm pretty certain of that. So many think that they will be raptured out of here and not face tribulation and have not prepared for an anything other than a prosperous lifestyle, hell, they really don't even consider having to struggle. While I am still a pre-wrath,last trump rapture guy, the whole Daniel's 70th week alternative study got me to putting together some possible situations, based on the 3 1/2 years being past and an interval between the last 3 1/2 years, for a pre-trib rapture. I can see many types and shadows in the OT of a rapture, but its the timing of it that is debatable and not the actual occurrence of one. For the sake of so many, I hope that I am wrong on the timing.

One problem of today is that men changed the gospel from a Christ-centered one to man-centered one. Most of what is preached today is that a man can come and go as he pleases, can "accept" or reject Christ solely on his own volition. Scripture is clear that a man cannot come to the Father except by Christ and Christ said that the Father MUST draw him and that He would never cast him out. Can a man become estranged from God? Sure, I am an example of that, but God whipped my ass and came and got me. Taking an ass whipping from God is something that a person never forgets and it works to perfection. I'll not make that error again. Oh, I sin every day( its hard not to do in Joe Bidens America) but I no longer try to justify it. Living a hermit lifestyle helps a lot since I am not around idiots much any more,lol.

Hells bells!!! Its daylight and I have said nothing concerning what I wanted to say. Old man syndrome, I guess. Anyone who compares me to Joe Biden better look out, I'll come find you! Its supposed to be close to 100* today, so I have to go. I got up at 4 am in order to write a post. Instead, I wrote jibberish, but I guess theres always tomorrow. I have to use this prednisone-inspired energy right now because my pills are running out. Prednisone is a helluva' drug, just too many side effects for full time use.ha

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2022 11:05 am

I have been studying the six days of creation with the seventh day of rest and something jumped out at me when reading Genesis 1. The first six days all end with........"And the evening and the morning were the (First, Second, Third, Forth, Fifth, Sixth) day."

There however is no mention of there ever being the end of the seventh day that follows with { And the evening and the morning were the seventh day}........"When did the rest day (Seventh) end, or when will the rest day (Seventh) end?" 

They all refer to the word "Day". If all of the days consist of the same amount of time to conclude, then how long is one Day. We certainly understand all days through number six have been fulfilled.

Of coarse there are many different views on how long a day is. But for me now a 24 hour day as well as a thousand years as one day would not fit, if we view "Day" Seven never having reached an end of time as of now. 

The LORD took a rest "Day" at the end of the sixth day from creation. Does this mean God has been resting from creating anything since the sixth day ended?

I now can view this as when The LORD begins creation again, his rest, the seventh "Day" will end. Can it be that each separate "Day" amounts to the same length of time for each creation? Think how long this old world would have been around from beginning until now and to the complete ending........"This blows my mind thinking about it."

Remember, there will be a new heaven and a new earth........"Is this when The LORD ends his rest, and begins creating once again?"

They will perish, but you endure; they will all wear out like a garment. You change them like clothing, and they pass away (Psalm 102:26).


For I am about to create new heavens and a new earth; the former things shall not be remembered or come to mind (Isaiah 65:17).


Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel (Matthew 19:28).


And the one who was seated on the throne said, "See, I am making all things new." Also He said, "Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true" (Revelation 21:5).


Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea (Revelation 21:1).


Nothing accursed will be found there any more. But the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His servants will worship Him (Revelation 22:3).


Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness (2 Peter 3:13).


      

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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2022 12:44 pm

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea (Revelation 21:1).


 Whenever I see this about the "no more sea"    It makes me wonder if it refers to people in fleshly bodies.    The oceans are such a beautiful piece of creation , that I just can't imagine Him doing away with them.   The evil  that exists in fleshly bodies on the other hand needs to be  no more.
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PostSubject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 13, 2022 3:40 pm

I just have to post this: I was checking out at the grocery store and I had bought ALL of the store brand bread. We freeze it and thaw it up and it does amazingly well. The checkout girl mentioned that I must be stocking up for something bad. I mentioned that there is only a 10 week supply of wheat on a global basis. She had no idea that bread is made from wheat. Then I mentioned how many things are made as a byproduct of petroleum. She asked me what petroleum was. I have no words to express what went through my mind.
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