Will we love the darkness more than the Light?

A couple things...what if we took our cue from the Apostles who declared THEY were in the endtimes and looking for the SOON RETURN.
Then we would have to rethink our 'habit' of smushing the entire Book of Revelation into a 7 or 14 or 21 year period prior to the establishment of the Kingdom on earth.

Secondly, It was not God's intention that the Jews would not receive their Messiah-Yeshua.  So even as He knows ALL, THAT is the only thing that separates Jews from Christians, and Christians from everyone else:  Who receives Jesus as Lord and Saviour and who does not.

Even religious Jews seem very vain, and wear "the chosen ones'' in pridefulness, not humbleness, and even so many believers still put their Jewishness ahead of Christ.

We know God's desire is that they had received the Messiah approx. 2000 years ago.
He allowed the Temple to be utterly destroyed in AD 70.  He's not going to be any more pleased to see it go up again EXCEPT that it will be for the King of Kings.
God disdain's animal sacrifice.  He disdains their vain worship.
For the unbelieving Jew, the third temple will be the place of abomination, not anything Good, Godly or Righteous.

I know that Elijah was 'taken' by God.  There is the argument that Moses' body was 'taken' by God, allowing them to reappear bodily.
Let's say that's the case.
But WHAT will they preach except the full Gospel: The Word. And God with us: the Spirit.
There's a reason the Jews celebrate when the two witnesses are killed. They HATE what they're hearing.
And THEN they are resurrected and ascend just to PROVE the point!  Amen!

As I said it seems like a hundered times through the years......"I believe the vast majority of people on this earth at that time will not see these two witnesses as the good guys, they will view them as the bad guys." It will be a joy for them when they are killed.......Jew,Gentile or whoever. Only a very,very small remnant will know who they really are.

I have no idea who these two witnesses will be......"I just look for clues in scripture." As of this day I would never tell someone they "Are" these two guys." Now I might say I think or believe they could be....."But never They Are." 

Most preachers and teachers of The Bible will tell you those were two angels in Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10 but it doesn't say angels at all. In no versions have I read does it say angels, it reads men. Of coarse they may have been angels but just like in so many cases they (Preachers and Bible Teachers) don't say "I think or I believe, they say they were." Too many people have a mind set and scripture is placed inside their mind set. They have already determined the outcome because of their mind set. But because of the two mens white and shining garments it certainly to me puts them in a class of Spiritual Bodied Men.

Some people believe there were "Spiritless" pre-Adamic beings on this earth at one point in time.

I personally don't believe there could have been any spiritless pre-Adamic beings. If they had "The Breath of Life" then they can't be spiritless.

If there was a pre-Adamic race then they very well could have been a creation "Without" being created in "The Image of God". They would still have been given the spirit of life from God as all living breathing creatures have,but not be "Imagers of God".

Oh boy...I'm really going to get into trouble now.     But first know I'm not arguing with you at all.
Just sharing some of the questions and possibilities I try to reason out with the Word-just like you are.

I've told my 'angel' story probably a few times on forum, so I won't get into much detail.
It may be more accurate to say he was a 'heavenly being', as he was in green and gold brocade and did not have wings.
I have 'seen' and been given a message a few times from angels all in white, and with wings.
I have a different take on them.

This 'helper' materialized beside me as I sat on the side of my bed, praying for deliverance from a 'trap' I'd walked into.  I had been praying and lamenting over it for 2 weeks at that point.  I finally told my Mom on a Sunday that I was 'caught' and this visit happened about 7:20 pm the next night. (the power of two in prayer and asking).

The pertinent thing here is that although he materialized from nothing-nowhere,
he had 'substance'.  I didn't know he was here until I FELT the pressure of his arm  across my back and his hand on my far shoulder.

I can't define who-what he was.  I don't know from whence he came, but he was solid while he was with me.  Then he did stay long enough for me to look at him thoroughly.  He never made eye contact with me, but he spoke.  This time it was more a normal speaking voice emanating from him rather than a voice in my head.  Sometimes it's one way, sometimes another.  
I have had a "Voice of Authority" speak to me on occasion and that seems to be within and without at the same time.  It's an UNFORGETTABLE EVENT, I can assure you.  

As I watched him leave through the wall, I watched the body disperse into little spheres of light that disappeared.
I am exceedingly sober-not on any drugs or medications.  I'm not deserving, either.
I'm just someone who found 'the Way' to where Spirit dwells.

IDK.  Was he a 'Spiritually bodied man"?    I'd say he was a Spirit who put on a body.
The angels I've seen in white and with wings are purely Spirit.
But others have seen them as men, so I don't have answers.  Just diverse experiences, accompanied by the most secure and blessed peace.

*... early in my adulthood conversion, in my 20's, i had a vision of an angel.  (i asked God to show me a powerful angelic being.  he did.)  all i saw was his face and 'bust' area.  he was intimately worshiping God.  the power emanating from him was so intense, i hit the floor and crawled away.  i pleaded with the Lord to veil it, as i could not stand to be in his presence any longer.  (God did not immediately veil it tho.)  only after pleading, did he finally veil it.  if he hadn't of, i believe i would have died.  i don't ask God to see angels any more...  Jesus is Lord!

Tetrasonicwave wrote:

*... early in my adulthood conversion, in my 20's, i had a vision of an angel.  (i asked God to show me a powerful angelic being.  he did.)  all i saw was his face and 'bust' area.  he was intimately worshiping God.  the power emanating from him was so intense, i hit the floor and crawled away.  i pleaded with the Lord to veil it, as i could not stand to be in his presence any longer.  (God did not immediately veil it tho.)  only after pleading, did he finally veil it.  if he hadn't of, i believe i would have died.  i don't ask God to see angels any more...  Jesus is Lord!

That's really something.  Really neat and terrifying at the same time.

used to work with a guy who had an angel stay with him after he had a very serious wreck....he throught it was a nurse, but when the emt's got him stabilized annd on the way to the hospital he learned that there was nobody there but him

I see The Kingdom of Heaven,The Kingdom of God as just that......."A Kingdom"......A government of God. Each creation as pieces of that Kingdom. I see different ranks,talents,jobs,and offices. I certainly do not view this as wings on my back sitting around doing "Nothing" for The LORD. Why have a creation if you don't use or enlist them in being a true part of A Kingdom?

The Bible isn't a science book. It never was and it never will be. It is what it is,I except it for what it is,and also for what it isn't. 

I enjoy discussing many of the things that puzzle me about scripture. I don't think there's anything better to do with my time. I feel every second I spend time within the pages of The Bible I grow in faith.

At the end of the day when the lights go out,that's what is most important. It's not about finding answers to all that puzzles me,it's about getting into the word and staying in the word. 

The Lord isn't my co-pilot,The Lord is my pilot. 


Hebrews 11:6........"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."


Matthew 7:7-8


Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:


For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

I've mentioned it several times in the past, that we tend to view end times prophecy in our time frame of today. We seem to see things as rapping up very quickly......"All within our time of living."........"A few years and it's all over."

Back in the days when Jesus Christ left this earth his followers viewed it the same way. I would say most of them thought they would live to see the return of Jesus Christ. On down through the centuries I believe most have viewed it the same way.

Dove wrote:

.

The pertinent thing here is that although he materialized from nothing-nowhere,
he had 'substance'.  I didn't know he was here until I FELT the pressure of his arm  across my back and his hand on my far shoulder.
 It's an UNFORGETTABLE EVENT, I can assure you.  

.  Just diverse experiences, accompanied by the most secure and blessed peace.

  I had such an experience when my dear mama died unexpectedly. I was putting her things in the trunk of her car at the place where she worked as administrator of a small assisted living. The tears were flowing and I was much grieved and broken hearted. As I was leaning over the open trunk, I felt a soft and  so very gentle touch on my lower back. It was a loving touch - yes so very gentle... I turned around fully expecting to see someone but not a person was to be seen anywhere.  Later that month, I had a few other things happen on the same order dealing with my hearing.  I feel just as Dove said about  feeling blessed peace and having no doubt.

If you take in account all his teachings Jesus Christ wants his believers and followers to be prepared for all the thorns as well as the roses.

I believe we don't hear enough about The Kingdom. 

Something I think about often is what the universe was like before the rebellion took place. The Kingdom of God is not just a kingdom here on earth but a kingdom in the whole cosmos. Just in our on speck in the cosmos,was there life on all the planets? Was there life on all planets throughout the cosmos?

I see the whole cosmos that is in decay as once having order. God did not create confusion and decay. The Angelic realm,The Sons of God failed at their stewardship of the cosmos. I believe re-born mankind (Sons of God) are about to stewardship the cosmos. We are about to truly "Image God".

scarz, what happened exactly, between genesis 1:1 and 1:2, i don't know, but i agree with you that it was a major upheaval, be it due to a supernatural angel war or whatnot....the heavens and the earth were created in the beginning and they "hayah" ( BECAME ) "tohu wa-bohu"( WASTE AND DESOLATION)....The text clearly describes the creations in genesis as being re-creations...i assume that the " day of battle" that the Lord fought was between the aforementioned verses....there is not really other time that it could be pertaining to.....now, my question is: were there two different species created by two different entities?....i just don't buy the "summary" explantation

Michael.......I would love you to lay out what you believe on two different species created by two different entities. I am very interested in this topic and you always put together great work.

I just wanted to say I was very intrigued by the observation of Methusala's year of death in relation to the flood.  What it brought to my mind instantly was Jesus saying, 'unless those days be shortened no flesh would remain alive', and that there could be a prophetic correlation~a pattern.  Perhaps even to a specific number of years.
If you guys could think on that for a minute in addition to where you're headed now, I'd love to hear any ideas.

scarz, my internet has been down most of the last 3 days, so give me time.....dove, the book of enoch goes into greater detail concerning methusela than the bible.....i'll see if i can look it up in the morning, if my internet will stay working

use this link for methuselah
https://www.foundationsforfreedom.net/References/OT/Pentateuch/Genesis/05Flood/Genesis05Flood1.html

here is a long commentary where the info is included
http://www.bibleabookoftruth.com/BookOfEnochAndNoah.pdf

Here is a good article on Methuselah. I will post a snippet of the work,so be sure and click on the link for all content.

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-timeline/genealogy/when-did-methuselah-die/

When Did Methuselah Die?


by Bodie Hodge  


The Greek from Μαθουσαλά or Mathousala, according to the New Testament Greek Lexicon literally means:

"when he dies, there shall be an emission"4

This is merely reiterating what previous scholars have suggested. But this definition may be why many scholars affirm that Methuselah's name means "when he dies it shall come" or "upon his death there will be a major change." Therefore, they say that this may have helped signify that the Flood would come when Methuselah died.

However a closer look at the Hebrew reveals that Methuselah's name may not mean this. Hebrew Scholar Dr. Ben Shaw at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary points out:

". . . it is extremely unlikely that the name Methuselah has the significance that Gill and others give to it. It is unlikely for the following reasons. The name is made up of two parts: Methu and shelah.

The methu part does not come from the word for death, because that would require a long u vowel between the m and the t. As it is, if this part of the name has any significance, it may come from a rare noun meaning "man." The second part of the name cannot mean "it is sent" or "there is an emission." Even supposing that the root meaning of the word is send (which is doubtful); it would have to be in a passive form, producing something like "shahluh." In order to produce the meaning, "when he dies, it is sent," the Hebrew would have to be something like bematoshahluh. Again, if the name means anything in Hebrew (which is at best doubtful), it is probably something like "man of a spear."5

So it may not be wise to continue to use Methuselah's name to mean "when he dies it shall come" or any variation of that. Regardless, the year Methuselah died was the same year as the Flood.

Who and What hides behind the curtain?

The main thing to focus on is that people are being used in this vast testing ground. It's the infant stage we are living in today of a huge agenda in the making. I compare it much to desensitizing the population that is The World.

It's a very gradual process that can't be forced too quickly. The World will be their prophets,The World will be their ministers,The World will be their teachers. 

The goals will never change, no matter how long the journey. Baby steps will soon turn into adolescent steps and then move into the grownup stage of steps. Once we reach the grownup steps it will be rolling at a greater pace and will cover ground much quicker. The grownup stage will begin and end very quickly.

for some reason, i lost the reply that i wrote.....?.......getting too old to think much, i guess...anyway, i 100% agree with you about the so-called "rapture?taken" verse in mathew 24.....

24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30I and my Father are one.

scarz, i want to get back to the two creation theory of mine today...its supposed to rain all day so i should have time later on....since its raining and i am inactive, i'll have to up my opiod intake to combat the pain and stiffness....i get creative when i do that

Great Michael!! I look forward to reading your work. I also hope you get feeling much better. I will drop in later.........."Have a great day."

okay, scarz, justr remember that this is a "theory" based on evidence and logical deduction from the account found in the book of genesis.....there is debate that the first few books of genesis are a summary and is copied from the summerian accounts.....let me say this, i do give credence to the summerian accounts, not as inspired, but as an older account of the history of mans relationship with the "gods"that is based in their pagan belief system....i believe that the genesis account is inspired due to the scientific verfication found in the scripture,verification that is overlooked, misunderstood,ignored, whatever, by the"scholars" and preachers/teachers,etc....a large % of teaching today is utter bullshit and storytelling....jack and the beanstalk has more bible in it than some teachings that are carried on today...

okay, lets start with the first chapter of the gospel of john:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
so, the WORD was the Creator of all things...now, the WORD is the "VOICE of God" so if the WORD created all things, then we can deduce that the cosmos were created by sound.....the Word was spoken and nothing became everything...any further thoughts on how was done are above my paygrade....not even in my deepest thoughts can i fathom this....it reminds me of some experiments that that i saw conducted on some youtube videos....let me see if i can look them up:





you see the elaborate designs caused by the vibrations created by the tone....there are no accidents or coincidences and all things are connected...just close your eyes and put this sound reasonance experiment in focus with the original genesis 1:1 creation....God spoke= the WORD=creation...you can't make something out of nothing,most will say?...a 3 dimensional being(man) is not capable of understanding the actions of a 4th dimensional entity(God)....we speculatate,theorize,rationalize,etc, and we don't come close,nor do we grasp the mind and abilities of the Almighty God.....watch the video, and think about crop circles,while you watch....looks like my type is not as was when it started,so i'll go to another frame and end this one

researcher, i have no idea what happened or what i did, but there is text under the video....you can right click and run the cursor over like you are going to copy and paste and higlite it in order to read what i wrote...i can screw up a steel ball with a rubber hammer!

okay,the WORD is obviously someone we all know and love:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


the living WORD of God is Christ and is also the spoken WORD of GOD which created all things and in John 1:1 is God....so, we have evidence to support Christ as the Creator....the Father spoke and nothing became everything....dwell on that a while...every word is in the bible,taken in context....we can place this all at the feet of the Triune Godhead, but there is no way for a mortal to understand....the best explaanation that i have ever hear for the Trinity,by michael heiser was vastly inadequate....


like i have posted before, there was an original creation by the Father as said in genesis 1, then devastation (tohu wa-bohu) between verse 1 and 2, then the "beginning" of a recreation....notice the word "replenish" in the following verse:


And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.



to replenish means to "do it again" and there is no denying that....BUT....the septuagint does not read that way....it says to "multiply and fill the earth" which would dispute the masoretic text of the KJV....i value the septuagint more than the masoretic now, so it boils down to a "fill or refill" and in case, i have to go to to  jeremiah 4:
       I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, andby his fierce anger.
27For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
some take this as a prophesy of a future event and the septuagint kinda' indicates this: I looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was not; and to the sky, an there was no light in it. 24 I beheld the mountains, and they trembled, and I saw all the hills in commotion. 25 I looked, and behold, there was no man, and all the birds of the sky were scared. 26 I saw, and, behold, Carmel was desert, and all the cities were burnt with fire at the presence of the Lord, and at the presence of his fierce anger they were utterly destroyed.
27 Thus saith the Lord, The whole land shall be desolate; but I will not make a full end. 28 For these things let the earth mourn, and let the sky be dark above: for I have spoken, and I will not repent; I have purposed, and I will not turn back from it. 29 The whole land has recoiled from the noise of the horseman and the bent bow; they have gone into the caves, and have hidden themselves in the groves, and have gone up upon the rocks: every city was abandoned, no man dwelt in them. 30 And what wilt thou do? Though thou clothe thyself with scarlet, and adorn thyself with golden ornaments; though thou adorn thine eyes with stibium, thy beauty will be in vain: thy lovers have rejected thee, they seek thy li


both the masoretic and the septuagint describe the tohu wa-bohu in genesis 1:2, that the earth had become a waste and a desolation from  something...my theory is that the original creation destruction was from the war that ezekial wrote of in the GOG/MAGOG conflict that describes God fighting at a previous time called "the day of battle" that caused the destruction of something called rahab that was maybe once a planet, but is now the asteroid belt.....i contend that the earth was once inhabited by angelic beings, created by God in a supernatural,multi-dimensional setting, but the rebellion, and the subsequent destruction by the sheer force of a supernatural battle, caused the entire cosmos to go into chaos....


now to the creation of man....need to rest so i'll post this so i won't hit a wrong key and lose it or something

so  we finally come to the creation of man:

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them..


few, and i mean very damn few, people grasp what is in this statement rightchere'....when a child bears a resemblence to his daddy, he is said to be"a spittin' IMAGE" of him....an image means a likeness...adam resembled his Father....adams daddy scrapped up a bunch of dirt that contained elements,minerals, moisture and he caused it to become a living creature by inserting HIS own DNA into it....remember, no living creature, or no living plant that exist, has ever existed or ever will exist that does/did not have dna....the source of life is dna....inside every cell is a nucleus that contains 23 pairs of chromosones that writes a "book" about the creature or plant that carries it....adam, and all living creatures carry "life" directly from the creator....some of you may have an issue or two with my next statement, but as far as what i just said, i don't think you can argue that.....now, all of us carry characteristics from our parents dictated by their dna characteristics...adam did too....read the above verse every slowly....its telling you that God made adam BOTH male and female....this is proven by a man having both X and Y chromosones....a female has Xand X chromsones....God put adam to sleep and took a "rib" or as in a boat, a "spline"....rib/spline is a support structure that supports the entire body of the boat....what does DNA do?....it supports our body and without it, we not only have no life, but we would be just an inanimate mass of rocks, dirt, elements,minerals, etc....everything we have as a human body is designed by dna....okay, i am ready to duck, so here goes: if adam was created in the image of his Father, is the Father both male and female?...it sure appears to be so and there can be denying that the evidence points that way....don't get me wrong, i am walking on eggshells with this, and i want to find myself in error with it, but i don't think so....it looks like God "cloned (i hate to use that term but it serves the purpose)" eve from the dna of adam...now, i will stop because i always feel like i have stepped over into the gnostic/talmadic/kaballahic realm, but it also is on the edge of my paygrade scale,also....gets kinda' complicated if you stay true to scripture


i want to stop with this,so as to not get into the "little g/gods" and the TRIUNE GOD ALMIGHTY debate, but i don't think i will, but first i need to recheck a couple of things and take a brief rest due to my eyes hurting....hell, they may as well hurt me today, everything else is...plese Lord let us have some sunshine and dry air....this old fart needs both of them

is the Spirit of God a female?...the Shakina Glory?....look, i don't doubt that certain aspects of the gnostics were correct, just as certains aspects of Jehovahs witness's beliefs are true....were the essennes gnostics?....there were fragments found in the dead sea scrolls that are considered to be gnostic writings....i'm kinda' rambling around here to draw this little broadway play to a conclusion...the "let US make man in our image" requires some serious study and pondering and i am not sure that anyone can really put their finger on it and pin it down....was the >US<, the TRIUNE GODHEAD?...but, what about john 1?....john said that Christ created and made all things?....i know that i over think stuff sometimes and see mirages in the desert, but you have to admit, this subject is interesting as heck....my hypothesis is that the Father created the original cosmos, and the WORD repaired it after the tohu wa-bohu.....

please think about what i wrote about the image of God,dna XY/XX male and female....is there enough evidence to take a deep breath and rethink some of our "traditional" learnings?

now, the next rainy day, i think i might ask this question: is eternity a circle? or does time just no longer exist?...scarz has commented on this before, i think, but the bible seems to support a circle of time

Remembering back to something I read , It may have been bogus, but was the blood identified on some historical material, that was thought to belong to Jesus( ?) have odd dna/chromesomes #'s ?

edit  http://www.project.nsearch.com/profiles/blogs/the-blood-of-jesus-found-on-the-ark-of-the-covenant

sound reasonance video and what i find interesting is that the patterns are very similar to the experiment in the above video, even though its different equipment and this one uses cornmeal instead of salt

judy, i don't trust anything like that....the bloodline from adam to Christ was maintained by mitachondrial contact...the specific egg of mary was fertilized when the Father "breathed the breath of life" into adam and it why the devil and his angels kept trying to corrupt the image by destroying that mithachondrial connection...."the seed of the woman" is eve's bloodline connection to Christ...remember, the bloodline was maintained by mary, and not with an earthly man....would the blood of Yeshua/Jesus show as female, as a lot of people speculate?.....i have no idea, but i don't think so....then again??????????????????

Michael371 wrote:

all of us carry characteristics from our parents dictated by their dna characteristics...adam did too....read the above verse every slowly....its telling you that God made adam BOTH male and female....this is proven by a man having both X and Y chromosones....a female has Xand X chromsones...


if adam was created in the image of his Father, is the Father both male and female?


it looks like God "cloned (i hate to use that term but it serves the purpose)" eve from the dna of adam...

DING DING DING!!! Glad somebody finally said it! I've been sitting on this for years. Adam, created in the image of The Father God was maybe made androgynous - both male & female. This makes sooooo much sense to me.

Consider this, and it's a real science FACT; for the first 8-10 weeks in the womb after conception WE ARE ALL PHYSICALLY FEMALE! Yes that means even the hairiest, strongest, burliest, football players started out physically as as girls. If you're a boy, so did you. Males are still GENETICALLY males during that time but the Y chromosome that makes some of us male doesn't kick in to do it's thing until after that 8-10 weeks are up. It's at this time that the sex parts that are to become either ovaries or big hairy brass ones get their marching orders.

Flame away! I have my asbestos undies on.

RE Mike's post:
is the Spirit of God a female?
----
I say a Resounding NO!  Whenever I encounter that-I'm outta there.

Next:   is eternity a circle? or does time just no longer exist?...scarz has commented on this before, i think, but the bible seems to support a circle of time

How to answer without creating confusion?  

When time exists, it does seem to function in a concentric circle, although in tighter and smaller and therefore faster circles as we approach the 'end point', at which TIME ceases to exist and we enter THE ETERNAL, which is the realm of the Spirit and which is not bound by time or space.

The more we function in the Spirit, the shorter the length of time is between a thought/action and the manifestation of the same.  That can be hard to deal with, and
requires a disciplined body, mind and spirit, and Peace and much inner Silence.
Otherwise we can inadvertently create a small slice of chaos, unless one enjoys walking into brick walls.
It's all a learning experience.  But TIME is an essential blessing while we  are learning.

AND this one:  the bloodline from adam to Christ was maintained by mitachondrial contact..

Uhhh...errrr...ummm...I pass.

researcher, i left that out because i didn't want to look it up and document it, but that is a medical fact

Bordercollie, I remember reading (seeing a vid of a vial of 'the' blood). I kind of can't go there with
Wyatt. I guess he has a lot of skeptics.
I was thinking the Shroud of Turin, but that would be so degraded, one would think.

dove, the seed of the woman was passed down through mitachondrial dna, from eve who originated from adam to mary....the evidence supports it

as far as the spirit of God being female....the "talmidic scholars" and the kabbalists say yes....you say no....i don't know because there is no way for sure for anybody to know....normally, i avoid stuff like this because its so close to gnostic beliefs, buts raining and i took a pill

Dove wrote:

Bordercollie, I remember reading (seeing a vid of a vial of 'the' blood). I kind of can't go there with
Wyatt. I guess he has a lot of skeptics.
I was thinking the Shroud of Turin, but that would be so degraded, one would think.

i have multiple and serious doubts about the shroud of turin....the very fact that catholics promote it is enough reason to be careful with it...ron wyatt?....i actually believe the guy was legit

michael371 wrote:

Dove wrote:

Bordercollie, I remember reading (seeing a vid of a vial of 'the' blood). I kind of can't go there with
Wyatt. I guess he has a lot of skeptics.
I was thinking the Shroud of Turin, but that would be so degraded, one would think.

i have multiple and serious doubts about the shroud of turin....the very fact that catholics promote it is enough reason to be careful with it...ron wyatt?....i actually believe the guy was legit

 I have the same shroud of Turin issues. I've just never been able to get behind this.

I haven't had many problems with Ron Wyatt either. I have a DVD box set of all his videos and I can't find much fault with his stuff - except I'm a tad skeptical about that blood on the mercy seat DNA thing. I don't believe that the crucifixion occurred on the north side of the temple. It happened on the Mount of Olives to the East of the temple. See graphic below that I did years ago for another whole subject but it gets my point across for this thread as well. Wyatt has it across the street from the garden tomb and that's below eye level of the temple. Scripture is pretty clear that the crucifixion was able to be seen from the temple.

I've been to Jerusalem and I personally checked all this out myself. The photo below I took myself is the Ron Wyatt site. No way that location was in sight of the temple.

i do hope that those of you that have a reliable internet service do appreciate it....this is the 4th time in the last 6 days...it just came back on....i am past the annoyed point and now i have to kill my eyes by reading a bunch at one time to catch up.....lots of stuff happening today

Thank ya'll for getting me straight on that.  I seem to remember a deathbed statement by him about what he thought to be true... but  now I'm straight on this thanks again to ya'll... now I have that flea tossed.   judy

bordercollie wrote:

Thank ya'll for getting me straight on that.  I seem to remember a deathbed statement by him about what he thought to be true... but  now I'm straight on this thanks again to ya'll... now I have that flea tossed.   judy

I took the gentlemen to be saying they don't object to most of his material.

Set the record straight, guys.  Please and thank you.

The whole Spirit of God is female is gnostic.
The gnostic faith is rooted in Watcher Theology.





Male and female he made (Them).


Now the first Chapter of Genesis it was man (Could be more than one)....."And God made man, according to the image of God he made (him).


Think now......"It wasn't until after the fall before they (Adam and Eve) had any children." 


"And God blessed them, saying, Increase and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the seas and flying creatures of heaven, and all the cattle and all the earth, and all the reptiles that creep on the earth."



What does it say at the end of the first Chapter of Genesis?....."And God saw all the things that he had made, and, behold, they were (very good)." Not perfect but very good.


How could it have been very good if The Fall had already taken place?






In the second Chapter of Genesis it was (The Man).....The Man is just one........."And God formed (the man) of dust of the earth, and breathed upon his face the breath of life, and (the man) became a living soul."


Adam (The Man)


Was Adam (The Man) a new man creation apart from "Man"?


Was Adam (The Man) an eighth day creation?




"And to the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy pains and thy groanings; in pain thou shalt bring forth children, and thy submission shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." 

i think ron wyatt was honest and actually found or thought he found what he claimed....i spent a lot of time listening to his videos or videos about him and his findings....he had pictures, he had witnesses, kent hovind is 100% was 100% in his corner....many "archeologists" are frauds, and do not believe the bible to be true....ron wyatt was not a "real" archeologist, but he believed the bible to be fact...and proved it in a lot of cases....it would surprise me greatly to find out wyatt was dishonest

scarz, it was a recreation described in genesis....you missed the point

Just some added thoughts that have been in my research for many years.

I'm certainly not setting all this in stone,it's just an area of study for me.

Dove wrote:

bordercollie wrote:

Thank ya'll for getting me straight on that.  I seem to remember a deathbed statement by him about what he thought to be true... but  now I'm straight on this thanks again to ya'll... now I have that flea tossed.   judy

I took the gentlemen to be saying they don't object to most of his material.

Set the record straight, guys.  Please and thank you.

  I agree  about  RW's  basic research with the great gentlemen and ladies here.  I was just meaning I had that itch about the blood being found and analyzed by RW's   chosen lab. It fascinated me and I always had a wonder about that since I read about it.  Then, I saw  Researcher's post and his personal experience about the site   now in my book, this settles it for me . No more itch (flea) for me.  I thank ya'll   for guiding me    .

This makes me think back to something I got into several years ago. 

Think about the next step in our heavenly bodies. That will be the next big thing. What would be the point of male and female body types in a heavenly body? If there is no reproduction process then the heavenly body must be one and the same......" Both halves make a whole." I certainly don't see a baby,child,or old person body type either......"No age,no aging process at all......No time.

I believe if The LORD wanted scripture to come together in book form he would and did move upon individuals to accomplish this. Doesn't mean for one second they were humans with a halo's shinning above their heads as we see in artwork.

And most certainly we can see in translations that words are there that were not there.

"The italicized words in the King James Bible are words that were added by the translators to help the reader. This is usually necessary when translating from one language to another because word meanings and idioms change. So, to produce a more readable translation, the King James translators (1604- 1611) added certain words to the Bible text. However, to make sure that everyone understood that these words were not in the available manuscripts they set them in italics."

This is one reason I like using The King James version of The Bible,because right off I know which words have been added. I also like it because it doesn't carry a copyright.

My three versions I use more than any other are.....

The King James Version (KJV)

English Standard Version (ESV)

English Translation of the Greek Septuagint Bible (LXX)

The Translation of the Greek Old Testament Scriptures, Including the Apocrypha.

Compiled from the Translation by Sir Lancelot C. L. Brenton 1851

A false + A false still = A false

If a person is in the deepest,darkest practices of the occult and I come to them with a false gospel or doctrine of a false christ and they except it as truth,they still remain lost.

You do not get closer to the truth by mixing a false Jesus doctrine into a false system.

Matthew 11:11........"Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."

In other words there are none greater than John,but there could be some humans that were/are his equal. 

Going back to the very beginning of Matthew 11. John is not dead,he is alive in prison. John had announced the coming of the King, and preached repentance and baptism. John baptised Jesus, and observed all the things surrounding the baptism. Now where is John?....."He is in prison." John can't understand why he is in prison if Jesus really is the Christ........"Is the King and The Kingdom of Heaven here or not?" John then sends two of his disciples to go directly to Jesus and ask him if he is The Christ or if they should start looking for someone else......"John was beginning to doubt."

Even as great as John was he was still just a flesh and blood man on this earth. Anyone in The Kingdom of Heaven would be better than John or any of us no matter how great we may be......." the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."


Matthew 11:1-5



And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to tea
ch and to preach in their cities.

Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,

And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?

Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

......shew (report to)

The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.


What exactly was this supposed to tell John?.......It was to let John know he didn't have to look for someone else. He/Jesus is The Christ even though you/John are in prison.

Everything that Jesus says and does is to prove to the Jew that He/Jesus is this promised King. The Apostle Paul says in I Corinthians 1:22......."For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:"

The King came but was rejected. 

Jesus was a miracle,his ministry was a miracle and Jesus was a miracle when he rose from the dead. All these miracles and signs were to prove to the Jew he was The King (Messiah,The Christ).

There are so few people that take part in the forum. Doesn't appear the forum attracts any new blood to join in. The vast majority just stay in lurker mode.

It's scary when it's realized that so many are asleep. Hopefully though, the lurkers  are benefiting and having something to think about. Planting seed .........some will take root and thrive..