Will we love the darkness more than the Light?

ScaRZ wrote:

There are so few people that take part in the forum. Doesn't appear the forum attracts any new blood to join in. The vast majority just stay in lurker mode.

Only the hard core 'certifiable' lunatic cases stick around here long term. Sometimes we give even the outer fringe the willies with some of our subjects. New blood is welcome any time and lurkers are always welcome to pop in anytime too.

Below is a link to Chapter 10 of the book "The Creature from Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin. 

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jekyll.htm

SUMMARY 

The American dollar has no intrinsic value. It is a classic example of fiat money with no limit to the quantity that can be produced. Its primary value lies in the willingness of people to accept it and, to that end, legal tender laws require them to do so. 

It is true that our money is created out of nothing, but it is more accurate to say that it is based upon debt. In one sense, therefore, our money is created out of less than nothing. The entire money supply would vanish into the bank vaults and computer chips if all debts were repaid. 

Under the present System, therefore, our leaders cannot allow a serious reduction in either the national or consumer debt. Charging interest on pretended loans is usury, and that has become institutionalized under the Federal Reserve System. 

The Mandrake Mechanism by which the Fed converts debt into money may seem complicated at first, but it is simple if one remembers that the process is not intended to be logical but to confuse and deceive. The end product of the Mechanism is artificial expansion of the money supply, which is the root cause of the hidden tax called inflation. 

This expansion then leads to contraction and, together, they produce the destructive boom-bust cycle that has plagued mankind throughout history wherever fiat money has existed.

I haven't read 'the Creature..." but would like to, to have the in depth history.  We assume it is impossible to pay off the reported 22 trillion dollars owed.  So either the government must just deny the validity and legality of such a debt and just go on about our business,  or perhaps abolish the Fed and fiat currency entirely, necessitating the establishment of a new system. 

Considering it was a contract with the devil, I think it has to be kicked to the curb.
The only question is how to avoid the blow back.

The new system will be a gold backed system as before, I believe, as it sounds like other governments are already in a position to do so.  Actually, some foreign countries may still now function with gold backed currencies.  That could be really good to know, if they appear stable and 'acceptable' to the TEAM, to the PLAN.  

BUT, seeing your reference to 'biblebelievers' website, I was expecting to hear First Fruits and Tithing.
Is that there?   Do they discuss it?  I know the owner of Hobby Lobby lives by it and has prospered greatly.  And there are other well known names.

Dove.....I came upon this after listening to Tim Bence and further research. I don't know how familiar everyone here is with Tim Bence. Very interesting story that's for sure. 

Tim Bence drew me into the interview within a few minutes. He comes across as just a down home person. He is so soft spoken and in my opinion not in it for anything other than informing us. 

These are packed full of information that brought to light so many things for me. The whole crossing of boundaries and how it all ties together. Jesus turning the tables over in the Temple was like I finally understood what it was about for the first time. The blood sacrifice of babies on alters and the curse of the lands. 

Canaanite altars and the Federal Reserve

Part 1 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcYw3bkB_pg


Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuI6hWx2EKk&t=61s


The Part 2 interview began with a short audio clip from G. Edward Griffin. Here is the full Youtube video titled "The Creature from Jekyll Island"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu_VqX6J93k

Very good so far. Ive put this on to download since I just came in for lunch and gotta go . I read somewhere  though that this is the like the sort of "place" where cern was built .

Bordercollie wrote:

Very good so far. Ive put this on to download since I just came in for lunch and gotta go . I read somewhere  though that this is the like the sort of "place" where cern was built .

You can get the mp3's of these shows directly at the links below. I saved these episodes back in 2013 when these were new. Worth hearing again. Getting these from YouTube uses up a grunge-load of bandwidth.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/revolutionaryradio/2013/01/10/canaanite-altars-and-the-federal-reserve.mp3?localembed=download

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/revolutionaryradio/2013/01/17/canaanite-alters-and-the-federal-reserve-part-2.mp3?localembed=download

By tapping into our DNA,by crossing genetic boundaries a curse was placed upon the offspring of woman+son of God (Watcher). I also believe the women became corrupt in their genetics from the union. I do not believe the women were raped or forced in any way. After my years of study on this subject I believe the fallen sons of God were not the only ones with lust in their hearts.

Just think how many times in The Old Testament that the children of man+woman were cursed for generations because of their parents evil deeds. And this we are referring to goes way beyond that in my opinion.

Also remember that the spirits of the offspring of these fallen sons of God could not return to God at death, but a curse was placed upon their spirits. Yes,their flesh side went back to the earth,but their spirit side remained on this earth and are the [evil spirits,demons],if we are looking into The Book of Enoch.

I do not believe for one second an [evil spirit,demon]will be redeemed or saved by Jesus Christ.

An evil rebellious act of abomination....."An evil seed is born by crossing genetic boundaries."

There are some people who can't seem to get their heads around The Wrath of God. I don't believe these same people come close to understanding how evil these offspring were. These evil offspring ate the flesh and drank humans as well as their own kinds blood. They screwed up the animal kingdom as well.

They are the demons that seek to destroy our temples (house,tent)to this very day. These are the ones Jesus Christ cast out of some people while he was on earth. These are the very ones whom didn't want Jesus Christ to cast them out and confine them into the abyss. They wanted no part of that place.

Some people want to make that Old God of the Old Testament different than the New God of the New Testament. God is the same God,Old and New,God is the same yesterday,today,and forever. The Law of God never changes,it was written "In Stone" by the very finger of God. All the statutes,precepts,and ordinances are a different matter. They were never written by the finger of God "In Stone".

I believe The Law of God is also written in our DNA. Our very names are written in this book of life. But remember our names can also be blotted out of the book of life.

Where is it written in The Bible that every soul is an eternal soul?

ScaRZ wrote:

By tapping into our DNA,by crossing genetic boundaries a curse was placed upon the offspring of woman+son of God (Watcher). I also believe the women became corrupt in their genetics from the union. I do not believe the women were raped or forced in any way. After my years of study on this subject I believe the fallen sons of God were not the only ones with lust in their hearts.

Just think how many times in The Old Testament that the children of man+woman were cursed for generations because of their parents evil deeds. And this we are referring to goes way beyond that in my opinion.

Also remember that the spirits of the offspring of these fallen sons of God could not return to God at death, but a curse was placed upon their spirits. Yes,their flesh side went back to the earth,but their spirit side remained on this earth and are the [evil spirits,demons],if we are looking into The Book of Enoch.

I do not believe for one second an [evil spirit,demon]will be redeemed or saved by Jesus Christ.

An evil rebellious act of abomination....."An evil seed is born by crossing genetic boundaries."

There are some people who can't seem to get their heads around The Wrath of God. I don't believe these same people come close to understanding how evil these offspring were. These evil offspring ate the flesh and drank humans as well as their own kinds blood. They screwed up the animal kingdom as well.

They are the demons that seek to destroy our temples (house,tent)to this very day. These are the ones Jesus Christ cast out of some people while he was on earth. These are the very ones whom didn't want Jesus Christ to cast them out and confine them into the abyss. They wanted no part of that place.

Some people want to make that Old God of the Old Testament different than the New God of the New Testament. God is the same God,Old and New,God is the same yesterday,today,and forever. The Law of God never changes,it was written "In Stone" by the very finger of God. All the statutes,precepts,and ordinances are a different matter. They were never written by the finger of God "In Stone".

I believe The Law of God is also written in our DNA. Our very names are written in this book of life. But remember our names can also be blotted out of the book of life.

Where is it written in The Bible that every soul is an eternal soul?

amen!

I don't believe "All" visitors to this earth realm have been,are,or will be only bad guys. Without a doubt I know we need to be very careful trusting any of the visitors. I'm certainly not one for opening wide my arms with a blind mind.

The dark forces are masters at letting us see what we desire to see. Our flesh grabs hold and we consume the eye candy. 

From the point of this earth on outward into the heavens as far as we have seen it is ruled by the powers of the heavens. One day a mighty shaking will take place and the powers will be removed.

Are there other worlds of creatures/creations within these heavens that we have seen,fighting the same battles that we fight against these powers of the heavens? Are they at war with their (flesh,suit,house,tent) as we are?.........."If they die then they are stained,and they battle." 

If it came right down to it they would need discerning minds viewing humans. It certainly wouldn't be a one way street on only humans behalf. 


Romans 8:22........"For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."

Romans 8:22........"For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now." (ESV)

If this verse is indeed referring to "The Whole Creation",then this would certainly cover not only earthly creation but also the whole creation within all the heavenly realms.

"The Whole Creation" is like a woman about to give birth. 

This shows us the massive effect that rebellion has caused on the whole creation. 

The effects run deeper than we humans have ever conceived. The birth pangs continue but one day they will come to a climax. What will then come for the whole creation?

if you are talking about dimensional beings, i can kinda' see this, but other flesh and blood beings, on other planets?...can't go that route....i can't think of one verse of scripture that would back this up and i have to think that if it were so, the bible or other scripture would be specific and would outline it....the enochian "those who came down" to mt. hermon might be, but every "gate" or rumored portal is on top of a mountain, so you really can't use that.....i spent a large part of my life trying to make your scenerio work....couldn't do it

i do enjoy your thoughts,though, and agree with most....you make people think, like i try to do....some people don't like to do that

I don't know either Michael. I have also spent years on the Alien/UFO topics in four other forums and brought a biblical view as much as I could. 

When I say "Visitors" I'm covering who or what they may or may not be. Some Christians want to say they are Demons......"I don't believe they are demons." 

I can't say all are evil like some preach. Angels or Sons of God are not all evil and I certainly believe they have been some of the visitors in the past......."They are in scripture." Are they still in the mix of things?......"They could be if God chose that route to go." 

Of coarse I see most in the past that have come into our earth realm to be on the side of darkness. I also believe if they are here today most are from the dark side.

I'm like Michael Heiser and can not rule out God having other creations out there. The Bible does not say in words there are not. Within our own solar system I have my doubts......"But who knows what creations are beyond this speck of the universe."

All I was saying was if there are and they die as we do in this earth realm then The War and The Adversary has reached them also.

hell scarz, if you'll look around you, all of the evil seems to be concentrated on earth!!!! can you imagine what it will be like in another decade,if that long?....we don't have room for extraterrestial evil, we got enough of right here on earth....a question for you to think about: has the dimensional barrier been breached, if my take is the correct one, or if they are ET's are they here now?....let me say that both researcher and i agree in lockstep with the "hybrids are here" idea....i think its obvious, but in a modern genesis 6 type arrangement....instead of giants in stature, intellectual giants that produced the technology of today

one more thing, i joined another forum, a large one, and tried to introduce some discussion.....they were clueless, had no idea what i was talking about...people amaze me with their inability to think....the biggest problem is that people do not know their bible....they know what their preacher told them it said, and thats all....no clue of the OT...."well, i believe did' and i believe dat'"....hmmmp, i don't give a damn what they believe, its either true or its a lie and scripture is the judge!....can i get an amen,scarz!

Amen Michael!!!

I really enjoy discussing topics that get me thinking as well as others. UFO/Alien forums have introduced me to many people who not only believe in Alien abduction but say they were. I've had some detail their interactions with off planet cultures and also those of the spirit world. Also so called spirit guides or aliens that place control over them.
 
One such person had an adviser whom he knew as an alien guide in his life since he was a small child. We would discuss certain topics and I would bring him to scripture and lay out things for him. Now believe it or not he told me several times that his adviser knew of our interactions and many times would warn him to not enter certain areas of conversation with me. I knew in my heart why he believed he was not to enter those areas.

His adviser was female and told him of future events that would take place. He also had another entity he called The Guardian that watched over him. He knew The Guardian not as alien but angelic. 

He also had interactions with The Greys and did fear them. He told me The Greys could and would harm those he loved or those he interacted with if he went into too much detail of them or their actions.

I did my best to talk to him about God and Jesus Christ and many many times he ask me questions. To this day I believe The Lord moved me to try and reach him. I don't hear from him any longer and worry about him. I did my best to not judge him but he knew where I stood firm. I told him up front what I believed and he needed to cut himself off from these entities. He needed to ask Jesus Christ in his life and let Christ clean things up.

I went down roads with him and some others that I believe most don't need to enter "At All".

A face lift is being done on The Word to make it more appealing to "The World", it's easy to see why. A reinvention of Jesus Christ has been going on for a very,very long time. The modern world we now live in is all for out with the old, in with the new. The Jesus Christ of the Bible is becoming what we accept him to be,rather than who he really is without all the window dressing. Jesus is becoming an idol to replace the real deal. Before our very eyes the great idol is being erected. The spirit of antichrist has been working hard and pushing forward to achieve the set goal.

The Shroud of Turin if it was proven without a doubt that it was the covering on Jesus Christ and people began to fall down or worship it in any way,this also has become an idol.

If you bow to it,worship it,serve it......."Then it has become an idol to you." 

As long as it's nothing more to us than what it is,I see no idol.

We can look at money much in the same light. That's the reason scripture teaches you can't "Serve" both God and Mammon. There is nothing evil about money,but the "Love" of money is the root of all evil. It can become an idol to all of us if we let it. It can become our god.

And of coarse it's not only money.


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As far as "Entities", I do not believe in messing around with channeling or remote viewing. I see any entity that is playing in these areas as using deception to enter your temple (Body). If a person takes this road they are inviting them in. Once your temple door is opened they will enter and a suggestive mental control begins.

good post, my man scarz, damn good post....remember, I will be >LIKE< the Most High...OR....."I will make myself very SIMILAR to the Most High....People are making God in "their own image" and if what they view as "truth" runs contrary to scripture, it like "oh well" the bible is wrong...scarz, check out a guy that has a little website and youtube ministry that he calls "wretched radio"....his name is todd friel and i share the same doctrinal belief as him.....he is kinda' nerdy but he knows his stuff....he does not deviate from scripture and looks at people that do in the same way as i do....being in error is one thing and we all have been there, heresy is another entirely different thing altogether
https://www.wretched.org/

youtube stuff by the same name

I like Todd Friel too but I have always wondered about that sculpture on display in his videos. I know it must have a meaning but don't know what it  is .. so held my distance just because of that.. It does look sorta ,,,,

hey judy, send me a email link showing what you are talking about, and walk me through it...i have not seen anything out of sorts, but i wasn't looking....just happy that somebody is promoting proper doctrine

Thanks for your post guys. Yes please post a link to the video Judy,I look forward to viewing it.

I love the words you used in your post Michael......"People are making God in their on image." We are suppose to be imagers of God not God imaging human kind. Humans want to mold God into how they think and believe he should be.

It's easy for anyone to say they believe in God but not so easy to "Believe God". Even The Adversary believes in God but the problem is he doesn't "Believe God".

I was just a little squirmy about this "sculpture " at the 8:16 mark on this video of his and wondered about it a very long time.  It's there in all videos I've seen .  It's probably all innocent but now ya'll have me wary of everything....  ha   thanks ya'll .   Truly am blessed to be here with my eyes  more and more opened though ( even if my family  squint their eyes when I talk too much about  our subjects so am more careful or try to be..).                https://www.wretched.org/persistent-postmodernists/

lol, i think you can relax mj, i see nothing occultic or any spiritual wickedness in the sculpture.....i have no idea what it is supposed to be, but i'll bet it came from home depot...look, this man teaches doctrinal truth like the church that i grew up in but just does not expand into the who,what where and why that comes from the "whole counsel of God"....let me put your heart at ease with the fact that this man,todd friel, uses r.c. sproul and john macarthur 's material a whole bunch and ain't neither one of them gonna' get anywhere near anything that ain't scriptural...i am a big fan of r.c. sproul, who taught several years at ole miss, somewhat less of johnny mac but i think the california culture is what made him a little bit more liberal than sproul....i know macarthur will teach a little more in depth about OT things than sproul will, but sproul is awesome with OT/NT comparatives....hey, you like/liked arnold murray, as i do/did because he covered everything but he did it in an elementary fashion, but he didn't get into much depth with doctrinal truth....these two,j mac and r.c., are the phd's but they explain things in a way that a child could understand....so, go ahead and listen to friel, he ain't a warlock!!! by the way, i got a nice letter from him today, not a form letter, but a real letter.....

Haha.. Ok I was hoping for that answer. I do really like to listen to him but that had just caught my eye  and made me wonder about it- - It had an odd look to me. I'll dismiss that concern now  and concentrate on  his videos .   You may find this silly but just last week or so, I was watching one of his shows on the tv before I disconnected my dtv satellite of 24+ years. and had sadly considered if I'd ever find the answer to  what that thing represented , if anything.... and here ya'll are .. there are no coincidences- truly awesome to get such quick answers to a prayer. Proof the Lord works through  His servants in  many ways- so many of which are unseen and unacknowledged  but I see them more and more every day.. Don't get me started on the pebbles  seen as I walk down the road with head down  and how many I still overlook...... .    Thank ya'll.

“The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the “agentur” of the “Illuminati” between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other.

 Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil.

Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view.

This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time.” - Albert Pike, revered 33rd degree Freemason, writing in a disputed letter reported to be written in 1871. Though this letter’s authenticity is in question, we do not need to look beyond daily headlines to see that this conflict is happening before our eyes.

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I see things as a replacement. It has been taking place for a very long time. A watering down is the key. There is no rush and can't be rushed. Move too quickly and eyes will not remain blind. The goal is for you and I to never realize the path changed. Little by little it was broken down,piece by piece, and silently replaced. Blind eyes could not see,deaf ears could not hear.

keep writing scarz......supposedly, this letter to mazzini is a fraud and never existed, although it was rumored to have been cataloged in a british museum and verified by a catholic priest/cardinal in or around 1925.....the museum denies it was ever there....here is the problem, if all evidence has been hidden concerning its existence, there is no way to verify it, except for one thing: the date of the first time it was discussed on a public forum....if it was around 1925, then you can know that it is probably a factual document and that WWII and events of our lives were predicted and they are following the script

2 Thessalonians 2:3......."Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"


"I believe most Christians are looking for the Antichrist but they are not looking for signs of apostasy."

"Jesus Christ is not coming until all things are fulfilled."


Revelation 9:2......."And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."


Revelation 9:3......."And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power."


Revelation 9:4......."And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."


Revelation 9:5......."And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."


Revelation 9:6......."And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."


Once the Abyss is opened I believe the locust army will have a short season of five months to torment. Those who do not have The Seal of God in their foreheads (Minds) are the target. If you are not God's they come for you.

I believe once this locust army is released from the Abyss and they pour out into this earth the deception they bring with them will paralyze their victims as a scorpions sting does it's prey.

Before the opening and pouring out of the contents of the Abyss apostasy was blooming,now get ready for the full portion. After the Abyss opens we get the full portion (total and final apostasy) that is brought about by the dark forces and their King. This I believe is "Strong Delusion".


2 Thessalonians 2:9-11
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


Notice in the above verse that Satan (The Adversary) has already been at work,now comes "the coming" of The Antichrist.

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.



This deception is going to be like a mighty flood that will cover the earth. The flood of Noah was upon the earth for 150 days (Five Months). I believe when the locust army comes upon the earth it will not be a flood of water but a flood of deception (Strong Delusion) for the same five month period/150 days.

the seed of delusion was planted in genesis 11 with nimrod and the beginning of sun worship....it sprouted and has grown to an almost  mature state...oh, the apostasy began with the bastardization of Christ and Nimrod by constantine and his mother....that led to Nimrod being mistaken for Christ with such "holy" crap as christ-mass....now, "mass" means DEATH in latin....uhhhh, whats wrong with that picture?....ignorant people celebrate the "birth" of Christ with a "holy day" that means his death....its like "happy birthday  Jesus, you're dead?".....then in the spring, the same people go to a hill and watch the sun come up, and worship nimrod in a reinactment of the babylonian celebration of the resurrection of the sun goddess ishtar, or as the new testament calls her, ianna, who was the phonecian name for her....all of a fertility celebration, complete with rabbits,baskets of goodies and eggs....people are so stupid...putting the name of "Christianity" on it means less than nothing...

allowing women in the pulpits and having men be in subjection to them is heresy, flaming degenerates,pedophiles and other deviates,even after being exposed, allowed to remain in that capacity is just another sign of apostasy, as is so-called revelations and prophecies in personal "experiences" that are unscriptural....the greatest sign that we are close,scarz, is that people do not know what the bible says....i do not think that we are at the door, just yet, due to there being too many real Believers still around.....there is error, sure, but there is a huge difference in error and heresy

right now, the biggest danger ( and has been since the time of constantine) is roman catholicism, a disguised form of mithraism.....there is evidence, although suppressed, that rome was the originator of mohammedism in order to take jerusalem for themselves, by first having the mohammedians take it, then rome would take it by conquering the mohammedians....it didn't work that way and before it was all over, the mohammedians almost took europe....

you know what scarz, when the locusts are released, i don't know if it will even be noticed....the office of nimrod has already been established at the vatican, its how it moves to jerusalem that intrigues me.....nimrod was a "god/man" and every pope is considered the "vicar" of Christ which is to say that he represents and can speak for Christ....that is obviously bullshit....now, what about islam and how does it fit in?....actually, pretty well....remember mohammed was a "prophet" and a false one and "allah" is just another way of saying "apollo" who was depending on who you quote, a god of light,either the sun(mithraism) or the moon, or both....all of the mosques and minarettes have the cresent moon and stars, as well as most all islamic flags do....."lucifer" the lightbringer, a latin word in a hebrew text?...nope, does not work....heylel ben shackur= "son of the morning star".....tammuz, the bastard son of semiramis, nimrod reincarnated by a sunbeam.....kinda' remind you of anything?....nimrod was from the same area as abraham, ancient mesopotamia,which was also assyria later on in history.....

where i think people miss the boat is that Israel was the "church" the called out ones in the OT....now, the church is the "Israel" of the NT...not that God has forgotten the remaining members of Judah, nor did he replace them, thats not what i am getting at....suppose, what would it become if "mithra and apollo" combined into something like "christlam" like what is being promoted in so many of these "emerging churchs?"....i am looking for a situation that encompasses ALL of the scripture not just part or some of them....the  two largest "religions" on the planet have to fit in...islam is not an apostate religion because it never fell away from anything....it was always false....romanism is something else because it fell away from truth into paganism.....they pray to a woman they call "the queen of heaven"....the NT calls ianna the same....ianna is ishtar/semiramis "the queen of heaven"....they worship a man who speaks and acts for "christ" and who changed times and laws....

now, how does jerusalem fit in scarz?....IS-RA-EL today, is 90%,give or take a jew or two, secular so it probably would not be too hard to fool them, and the judahists are blinded so they would be easily fooled by someone who they THOUGHT fit their ideas of what the messiach should be....but how do we get nimrod to jerusalem?

Michael......Thanks for what you have posted. You did a great job laying out where you stand. I can tell you have been at this for a very long time. 

There are so many people that are taught they can't fall away. In my opinion that is a door wide open for the enemy to walk right in and snuggle up next to them. The apostate church is the crown jewel of The Adversary. Why was it Jesus warned over and over to not be caught sleeping? Was he telling "The World"?........."The World" has been sleeping,is sleeping and will be sleeping.

The Adversary is not worried about working in all the false religions of the world......"That's a waste of time.........He already has them in his pocket." His goal is to inject his poison into believers and followers of Jesus Christ. 

Some will say......."Well they never really were a Christian,they never had him,they were not a believer or follower."

How can it be apostasy......."If it isn't apostasy"?

How can we fall away from something we never had?

We are suppose to love,but love does not mean bowing down to other gods or embracing false doctrines.

Think about it........"The salt losses its flavor."

The Adversary uses false doctrine to build a faith around sucking people into a system and soon the system becomes their faith. Don't ever forget my friends that the Antichrist system has been around for a long,long time. 

When this Abyss realm as I call it is opened,will it be opened silently?.......OR will it be as most think"BOOM!" and out pours the evil on earth in the sight of all mens eyes? Remember,most eyes will be blind and will not be looking,but be asleep in their minds. A falling away and deception has been playing out for a very very long time. Most of mankind will thirst for the [True Word]. 

I lean more in the direction of a silent openning as the coming of "The First Bridegroom". The destroyer (Antichrist) will be The First Bridegroom. Most of mankind will be unaware who he is. Only a very small remnant will be awake and not asleep in their minds. 

Don't burn your oil on the first bridegroom.

now, scarz i have a tough one for you....the innocence of child results in that child asking the most difficult question ever asked in the history of mankind....."where did God come from?"....the answer is usually "well, i don't know" or "He has always been"....this question is above my paygrade...i cannot even formulate a theory based on scripture that i can remember....answer that question scarz

michael371 wrote:

"where did God come from?"

I'm pretty sure all of us have thought of this many times. I've come to the conclusion that no matter how we answer the question the answer to we mortals will never be fulfilling enough.

Just think on these five words and it will blow our minds......I AM that I AM."

The Creator (God) is not and can not be bound by time,space or matter if our creator was not a creation.

As The Creator (God) then he can create time,space and matter. The very first verse of scripture tells us this doesn't it?

Genesis 1:1....."In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

In the beginning....."Time"

Created the heaven....."Space"

The earth....."Matter"


The Creator God) within the writings of scripture did not choose to reveal to human kind all that has taken place before The Creator (God) created the universe as we know it.

Was and Is The Creator (God) an eternal creator?

If The Creator (God) had no beginning and will have no end will creation never end?

i kinda' figured thats how you would answer....thats why a lot of folks don't like me, or avoid me....i ask questions like that.....those things are what i look into and try to define( most can't be) and point out to others to make them think...most religionists of today don't want to think and would much rather be told what to think....my studies are based on FACTS,EVIDENCE and TRUTH with scripture being the final authority and even at my advanced age, i keep getting more questions than answers....scarz, you are a treasure, an absolute "man after my own heart"....i wish i knew you personally, just so we could talk....i speak much better than i type, and you were right, i have studied for a long time and i have researched things in scripture that few people even know is in there.....
 the churches of today are either in the main stream of apostasy or the beginning stages of it....i believe more and more that the final apostasy will be a combination of government and religion....the false prophet having "two horns" or two seats of authority....government and religion....what situation is in play with that now?....who really is behind all of the chaos in the financial world?....who really controlls politicians including the supreme court?.....'JEWS?".....or somebody else?.....who fits mystery babylon the best?....scarz, you didn't answer my question from the other day....you know who anti-christ is going to be....how do we get him to jerusalem?

Where did God come from?

Way WAY above yours, mine, or anyone or anything else's pay grade. The mind just goes into overdrive and melts down even thinking about this question. Of course, yes, I do want to know the answer - BUT - my finite mind is better spent working on questions to other mysteries that might be answerable.

But it is fun to think about, and of course I do wonder too.

researcher, it is just awesome to try to think it out and realize the impossibility of it....you see it mentioned a lot in the OT as trying to "know the mind of God" and then they realize the futility of it...unfortunately, my mind does not rest....its why i have trouble sleeping....it nevers stops processing information....it was an advantage when i was younger, but now, it leads to  alot of confusion and mixing of facts....i do like to think above the physical,or try to think above it....i just loved that innocent "where did God come from" question....i was listening to s chronister last night and he brought up how many stars and galaxies that were estimated to be in the universe......lol, i sometimes worry about where God was going to put all of these resurrected creatures, but after hearing him, i can stop worrying about it....Hes got plenty of room....once the separation of heaven/earth occurs, we gonna' have a lot of room to play

how many stars and galaxies that were estimated to be in the universe......lol, i sometimes worry about where God was going to put all of these resurrected creatures, but after hearing him, i can stop worrying about it....Hes got plenty of room....once the separation of heaven/earth occurs, we gonna' have a lot of room to play

After the dust settles y'all are all invited over to my galaxy for a Bar-B-Que.

michael371 wrote:

scarz, you didn't answer my question from the other day....you know who anti-christ is going to be....how do we get him to jerusalem?

 
As I've written about earlier in this thread, I believe The Assyrian is The Antichrist. Read Isaiah Chapter 10 and this is how The Antichrist gets to Jerusalem I believe. I will just point out a few verses to show why I believe this to be so. Please read the whole chapter to get a complete picture.

O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation. I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets......Isaiah 10:5–6

Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks......Isaiah 10:12

And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;.....Isaiah 10:17

"His Holy One" .........This is speaking of The Messiah destroying The Antichrist by fire. So there is no doubt to me that this is an end time prophecy.

Assyrian anti-Christ fits Turkey as well. Bear in mind that back in the day of Isaiah et-al what is now mid to eastern Turkey was part of Assyria. Check some ancient maps for details. If the AC pops up out of Turkey, as I think he might, (Erdogan anyone?) it would still fit with his being called Assyrian. Add to that, northern part of modern day IRAQ was also part of ancient Assyria. That's a lot of territory to watch. Back in the day we used to call the whole darn schmutz Asia Minor.

I have a book called The Assyrian Connection by Phillip Goodman (2003 version) that makes lots of sense. I think it's out of print but you might search for a used copy.

scarz, read my post, i mentioned assyria for a reason....researcher, i have the book....what i am getting at is this: what is the one thing that would allow islam,"false christianity(romanism) and talmudism to unite under one banner?....what would honor mithraism, ba-alism, the moon god, and rabbinical judaism?....what false prophet holding 2 positions of power might cause men to worship the "beast".....have ya'll ever thought that the world "religion" or the ecumenical movement might take place under the guise of freemasonary?....the pope might say the end justifies the means( hell, thats their history) and cause catholics to fall down and worship the beast in the masonic temple...remember, freemasonary is big in arab nations....this is not out of the realm of possibilities at all

All this can get so deep. Lets look back to Isaiah 9:10 (LXX) and think about how far the people of Israel had fallen into apostasy. The nation of Assyria (Asshur) was used by God to come against them because what they were about to attempt to do........"Rebuild The Tower of Babel again."


Esaias [Isaiah] 9:10 (LXX)......."The bricks are fallen down, but come, let us hew stones, and cut down sycamores and cedars, and let us build for ourselves a tower."


In the end times A King (The Assyrian/Asshur=The Antichrist) will once again be used by God to fulfill his will. Remember in The Book of Revelation the example of a tower can be seen with Babylon The Great........"Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen"

I believe out of what was once Alexander the Greats Kingdom....."And most certainly The Kingdom of Assyria mixes in this land mass" The King will rise (The Assyrian/Asshur=The Antichrist).

This verse of scripture from Revelation Chapter 8 has fascinated me for many years. Luke Chapter 21 verse 25 could also be very much pointing to the rotation of the earth increasing in speed. Many other end time prophecies may fit in this as well.

Revelation 8:12........"And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise."


Luke 21:25........"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;



I believe there could be a literal shortening of the hours of a day when one third or 8 hours will be removed. The sun will rise quicker and set quicker so also as the night will begin quicker and end quicker......"A full day will no longer be 24 hours but only 16 hours."

This could be what Jesus Christ was referring to when he spoke of the shortening of the days.

Mark 13:20........"And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days."

i have thought about what you are saying,several years ago, and decided against it due to a passage in the book of the angel(jubilees) where the "angel" was saying that there had been 120 jubilees preordained for mankind (note noahs preaching and building the ark 120 years)....120 jubliess is thereabout 6000 years, which would reflect the "6 days shalt thy do your labor and on the 7th shall ye rest" week, and the millenium would be the 7th day rest...my take is that the 6000 years will be shortened because man is about to destroy himself due to the events of the final times of tribulation

I have always interpreted Mark 13:20 in the same manner as Michael has.

the 'calendar' post re: Ken Johnson's 'corrected' date determination, however, pushes the conclusion of the 6000 years much further into the future than I wanted to hear.  

We might be able to 'buy' 31 years from Methuselah's passing prior to the flood as a possible portent of things to come [again].   But I'd have to really work on the figures before saying what that might reveal, and we couldn't take it as 'Gospel' even then.  Just a hopeful 'maybe'.

Yes! your thoughts are as I would say most see it. But Revelation 8:12 is a verse that has a much deeper meaning in my opinion. Of coarse it could have nothing to do at all with Mark 13:20. When I begin researching something it will lead to many verses of scripture that may fit. As I've mentioned many times referring to prophecy. I believe as years pass the road to understanding prophecy will change. 

I was in the same boat as most about the end will occur in our generation. I understand things can change very rapidly but I now believe it may very well be further out into the future. Near for The Creators time frame can still be hundreds if not thousands of years down the road in human terms. The main thing is for us to always be ready......."Don't be caught sleeping." 

We are not suppose to be as those of the night (The World) we are to remain awake at all times. We are not to become stagnant. We are to continue to grow and never think we have all the answers. I do not vision Heaven as one big bang and now I have all understanding,growth and knowledge.  I truly believe we will always be in an eternal growth with and in The Lord.


I quote A.W.Tozer........"Probably the most widespread and persistent problem to be found among Christians is the problem of retarded spiritual progress. Why, after years of Christian profession, do so many persons find themselves no farther along than when they first believed?"

Me too.  I've said here often the only time to qualify for the Rapture is today.  Not that the Rapture is tonite, tho it always could be, but that we don't know when our soul may be called and our time up.

Rev. 8 is even beyond my imagination. If it is literal that would be such massive destruction that one would think the earth would be no more.  Yet there is a verse that says millions will survive the tribulation and live into the Millennium.  So I'm perplexed by that.  
I've even wondered if John was not at the moment seeing the END of the 1000 years, after satan has been released again 'for a short while'.
I've also thought that the New Jerusalem which descends from heaven could be AFTER the 1000 years, and is a 'heavenly abode' where we will always be in the Presence of God Himself.  (I'm open to rethinking many ideas, and readjusting with increased knowledge, as you also said.)
That at that point we are so truly of God, that there is no separation, nothing existing, nothing remaining that is not Him.

Imagine someone drowns.  Eventually everything breaks down into the ocean and becomes a part of the ocean, where one could not separate that person out again.  I see it like that.  BUT that our awareness via our spirit, is eternal, and our Life remains eternal, in and with Him, as you said.
And then perhaps we put on another shell-temple for the Spirit and are dispatched out to the next Creative adventure, always learning and growing, as you said.
God is dynamic.  Never boring!

Some of our visions of 'what is and what is to come' may be different, yet fundamentally the same.

scarz, i need you to remember something for me....i am rather busy today, but i am listening to something that knocked a thought in my head....i remember, but not the exact wording or where the scripture is located...a quick search didn't turn it up and i am pushed for time right now and tonight....i remember,either in the bible or in extra-biblical text ( i think i do anyway) about israel, in its final days, being ruled by women?/children?....see what you come up with.....................please

Michael.....I don't know if this is what you are referring to but take a look.

Isaiah 3:12........"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." (KJV)



My people—infants are their oppressors,
and women rule over them.
O my people, your guides mislead you
and they have swallowed up the course of your paths. (ESV)



Esaias (Isaiah) LXX 3:12........"O my people, your exactors strip you, and extortioners rule over you: O my people, they that pronounce you blessed lead you astray, and pervert the path of your feet."

thanks scarz...i had forgotten the context....i thought it was in isaiah but was not sure

Christ told us exactly what to look for at his coming. Anything other than this and it will be a deception. The real deal will come but none of us can put a rush on it. Don't ever give up on Christ return and don't ever give in to something that doesn't fulfill to the letter. Christ coming will be a very public event , a world wide event.

If anyone or anything tells us Christ has already come,we should without doubt know it's a lie. The whole earth will know for sure when that day is a reality,it will not be a secret event. I do not believe in any type of secret rapture. 

I believe in a meeting in the air of those who have died in Christ,then those believers who remain at the return of Jesus Christ. I believe this event will take place with the sound of the Last Trumpet (The Seventh Trumpet). 

in the air......."In the spirit"

When this event takes place we will put on a heavenly body (Born of the Spirit). There will come a day when a change will occur......."Off with the old,on with the new."

The word rapture is not found in The Bible but the word "Caught Up" is where the view of rapture is taken from.


1 Thessalonians 4:17........"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."


caught up/caught away.......Greek (harpazo) This same word (harpazo) is also used in the verses below.


2 Corinthians 12:2........"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."


2 Corinthians 12:4........"How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."


Revelation 12:5........"And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."


Now to get a very good picture of this "Caught Up" (Harpazo) I will post some very telling verses from Acts Chapter 8. I find these verses very interesting and some that aren't talked about very often.

I must lay out a large number of verses to get the full story.


Acts 8:26-40


And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.


And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,


Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.


Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.


And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?


And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.


The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:


In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.


And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?


Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.


And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?


And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.


And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.


And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.


But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.



As you can see Philip was "Caught Away" (Harpazo) as soon as they rose from the water. There are no details given about the "Caught Away"(Harpazo) of Philip. All we are given is that he was taken from that location and was later found at Azotus. We have no idea how long it was before he was found. We don't know how long he was taken then returned.

This whole event is a great picture of the death,the burial,the resurrection,the caught up/caught away (harpazo),of all those who have died in Christ and those believers who remain alive at is coming. Philip's event is very special for all of us to view the big picture.

In the Book of Jubilees we read that after the flood evil spirits (Demons) began to be a big problem for the descendants of Noah. Noah began to pray to God to bind all the demons away from man. Noah knew that God had bound the Watchers that mixed with women by casting them in the Abyss.Now Noah ask God to do the same with ALL the evil spirits (Demons) who were the spirits of the Watchers offspring. 

God was about to bind them ALL until the chief of the spirits "Mastema" ask God to let some of the evil spirits (Demons) remain. Mastema doesn't seem to be worried in  least that he will be bound with them if ALL are imprisoned. He must know he will be on the outside no matter what takes place. God then binds 90% of the evil spirits (Demons) in the Abyss leaving 10% of them to remain and listen to Mastema's voice and do everything he ask of them.


Jubilees Chapter 10


1] And in the third week of this jubilee the unclean demons began to lead astray the children of the sons of Noah, and to make to err and destroy them. 


5] And Thou knowest how Thy Watchers, the [FATHERS of these spirits], acted in my day: and as for these spirits which are living, imprison them and hold them fast in the place of condemnation (Abyss), and let them not bring destruction on the sons of thy servant, my God; for these are malignant, and created in order to destroy. 


7] And the Lord our God bade us to bind all. 


8] And the chief of the spirits, Mastema, came and said: 'Lord, Creator, let some of them remain before me, and let them harken to my voice, and do all that I shall say unto them; for if some of them are not left to me, I shall not be able to execute the power of MY WILL on the sons of men; for these are for corruption and leading astray before MY JUDGMENT, for great is the wickedness of the sons of men.' 


9] And He said: Let the tenth part of them remain before him (Mastema), and let nine parts descend into the place of condemnation (Abyss).' 



Then we see in verse 11 that this Chief Mastema must be none other than (The Adversary) Satan.


11] And we did according to all His words: all the malignant evil ones we bound in the place of condemnation (Abyss) and a tenth part of them we left that they might be subject before Satan on the earth. 

that fits right in and interlocks with the book of enochs account of the origin of demons....."jubilees",as best as i can tell, is called "the book of the angel" in the bible.....what we have now, may be a copy,though, sorta' like jasher.....the jasher we have is probably not the same as mentioned twice in the bible, but most likely a copy based on memory or tradition

The Bible and some parallels to the Book of Enoch 



Jude 14: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam ‘’prophesied’’ of those, saying, “Behold the Lord cometh with 10,000 of his saints.” 

ENOCH 2: Behold he comes with 10,000 of his saints, to execute judgment upon them. 




Matt 5:5—Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth. 

ENOCH 6:9—The elect shall possess light, joy and peace; and they shall inherit the earth. 




11 Peter 2:4—God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment. 

Rev. 20:10—And the devil that deceived them was cast into the ‘’lake of fire’’ and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever. 

ENOCH 10:6—Again the Lord said to Raphael, Bind Azazyel hand and foot; cast him into the darkness… 
10:9—And in the great day of judgment let him be cast into the fire. 





1 Tim. 6:16—Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man has seen, nor can see… 

ENOCH 14:23—No angel was capable of penetrating to view the face of Him, the Glorious and Effulgent; nor could any mortal behold Him. A fire was flaming around Him. 





1 Cor. 10:20—But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God. 

ENOCH 19:2—And being numerous in appearance made men profane, and cause them to err; so that they sacrificed to devils as to gods.[The phrase “numerous in appearance” had been noted as to mean “assuming many forms.”]..... [shape-shifters?] 





Luke 9:35—And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, ‘’This is my Son, the Elect One; hear him.’’ 

ENOCH 45:4—In that day I will cause my Elect One to dwell in the midst of them; will change the face of heaven; will bless it; and illuminate it forever. 





Dan. 7:9—I beheld to the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels were as burning fire. 

ENOCH 47:3—At that time I behold the Ancient of days, while he sat upon the throne of his glory… 





1 John 2:15—Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 

ENOCH 48:6—They have hated and rejected this world of iniquity, and have detested all its works and ways. 





Acts 10:34—Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons. 

ENOCH 62:11—In his judgments he pays no respect to persons. 





James 1:8—A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways. 

ENOCH 90:5—Approach not integrity with a double heart; nor be associated with double-minded men.

Hârût and Mârût 


Islamic mythology 


in Islâmic mythology, two angels who unwittingly became masters of evil. A group of angels, after observing the sins being committed on earth, began to ridicule man’s weakness. God declared that they would act no better under the same circumstances and proposed that some angels be sent to earth to see how well they could resist idolatry, murder, fornication, and wine. 

No sooner did Hârût and Mârût, the angels chosen, alight on earth than they were seduced by a beautiful woman. Then, discovering that there was a witness to their sin, they killed him. The angels in heaven were then forced to admit that God was indeed right, whereas the fallen angels faced atonement for their sins either on earth or in hell. Hârût and Mârût chose to be punished on earth and were condemned to hang by their feet in a well in Babylonia until the Day of Judgment. 

Hârût and Mârût are first mentioned in the Qurʾân (2:102) as two angels purveying evil in Babylon, and the legend probably appeared to explain how they happened to be in that position. The story itself parallels a Jewish legend about the fallen angels Shemḥazaî, ʿUzza, and ʿAzaʾel. The names Hârût and Mârût appear to be etymologically related to those of Haruvatât and Ameretât, Zoroastrian archangels.