The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Rick wrote this and I'll tell you after knowing him for a few years he is up front and doesn't hold back what he thinks. He is from Canada and is a believer and follower of Jesus Christ. I posted back in one of the other threads of mine something he had written that I'm going to repost. It all ties into his thoughts today on the USA.

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Today, America is a near replica of ancient Rome. And like Rome it has become the world's greatest Rape and Plunder machine. But also, the world's greatest civilization, like Rome was in its day. Thus the 'machine' is justified.

However, also like ancient Rome, America has become fat, lazy, decadent, self involved and short sighted. Rome arguably fell due to its internal moral decay, of the same kind. Many abroad see America as on the road to repeating Rome's history.

That would be a great loss for humanity.

If America sinks into civil war once again, I won't be surprised.

If no civil war, I doubt you have any political chance of fixing it within. Your elected Congress and Senate have now been fully compromised. The power of the people to speak through them, has been cut off. I never thought I'd see that happen to you. Your Washington political system is now virtually fully controlled by Illuminati forces. Is there any other explanation that reflects the appearances?

Either way, I try not to worry myself too much. Our treasure is in Heaven. But I am saddened by the path America is going.

In my brief studies of Illuminati goals, I've learned their ultimate aim is a Global form of 'Continuity of Government' managed and ordered through the control of currency.

According to one who was born and raised in an Illuminati family, (who subsequently became a Christian and defected), the Illuminati goal was targeted to be achieved in 2050. This was the plan that their children were taught in the 1980's and through the 90's, while they worked to prepare governing systems and geopolitics toward this long term goal. However the advent of the internet changed everything and created "a window of opportunity" to advance the target from 2050, to ASAP.

Much of the major events we have seen occur in the world over the last decade, reflects a concerted effort toward this aim.

The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 4 Runes110

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:55 am

this past week the WEF and the UN have openly announced their partnership to complete their goals by 2030.

Between our information campaign against the vaccines, Russia fighting against NATO forces on their borders, the ongoing dismantling of all covert forces causing the collapse of Ukraine, the people rioting around the world against food prices and the removal of Globalist dictators around the world, they are in the 'big squeeze' now.
Things are not going as they planned. No more 'slow boil' in the pot for
unsuspecting people. We know what they're planning and we won't comply. The war is hot and it's going to get hotter through the rest of this year.
The bankers have to be brought down. That means their system has to collapse. That's the system we live under, so be prepared....
We're told we have the gold.

The words today are prepare, resist and survive. Then we'll see what 2023 looks like.   The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 4 1f609

The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 4 1f609

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:14 am

I know someone on this board prayed for us to get a rain. Thank you! 3 1/4 inches yesterday and last night! The heat index for here was 116* yesterday and the rain was glorious to see. Wow, after so long, that 3 1/4 inch rain looked like Noahs Flood to me.

I plan to address the Golden Calf subject in the morning. I got up late today

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

michael371 wrote:: I know someone on this board prayed for us to get a rain. Thank you! 3 1/4 inches yesterday and last night! The heat index for here was 116* yesterday and the rain was glorious to see. Wow, after so long, that 3 1/4 inch rain looked like Noahs Flood to me.

I plan to address the Golden Calf subject in the morning. I got up late today

Does anyone remember it being consistently this hot? Day after day, week after week without a break from the heat.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:01 am

Never have I remembered it this hot .. I have to work out in it every day and can't remember it being this hot. The sun actually feels like being too close to an open flame. 113 heat index has been common the past 3 weeks. And February last year. wow . a solid week of frigid weather. Ice storm and a low of 8 degrees never above freezing for a whole week.! Cows were in dire straits and then we ran out of feed. That's for almost 200 animals. !!... Roads were iced up for a week solid here in the country . The Lord blessed us with an 18 wheeler load of feed as the roads became passable though. He also gave us the wisdom and strength to rescue a calf on a frozen pond- Her body heat had melted through the ice after so long laying there and had then slipped in. I crawled on my stomach as did my bil to secure a rope on her and pulled her out.
This is not normal weather- also the lightening is very intense and I had electric fence struck and actually evaporate- We were again blessed that no cows were killed.
It seems like the writing is on the wall.....

I was so grateful that Mike got a nice rain, When I heard it last night on the roof, I knew he had prayers answered.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:46 am

In a nutshell, the story of the golden calf is pretty obvious that the Israelites(represents the church of called out believers) wanted to make a God in their image rather than the opposite. They had bitched and griped( some of them, maybe most of them?) about leaving the comforts of slavery in Egypt( this represents the world system) rather being happy that they had been set aside to journey into a land of their own. Just like the lives of every believer, there are periods of weariness and doubt and it was no different for the Israelites because they struggled with the journey out of Egypt toward the Promised Land. The building of the golden calf was no different than Cains attempt to please God by the works of his own hands rather than the bloody sacrifice of Christ. Cain tried to approach God with his butterbeans and turnip greens and there was no blood. Cain was counting on his works to be sufficient and not the blood of The Lord Jesus Christ. The golden calf, in my way of seeing it, was not a work of respect. It was something that they had seen in Egypt and had been passed down through the generations from ancient Sumer. The tales of the Gods, the graven images from paganism was still etched in their minds and they didn't know any better. Somehow the God of Abraham,Issac and Jacob had taken the backseat to the gods of their previous dwellings.

It is interesting to think about how the Israelites might have given up their valuables do what is mentioned, but I just don't think that it was even remotely the case. Moses was the intermediary that represented Christ, and all things had to go through Moses and I just don't imagine that a golden calf was in the plans. Human works are futile and works only matter after one is rescued by Christ. If man could save himself, there was no need for Jesus to die on the cross. Man is separated from God until God seeks him out, just like He sought out Adam and Eve. They hid themselves and attempted to cover themselves by the works of their own hands. God made a covering for them from skin of an animal and that animal represented Christ and the shed blood that was to save those that had their names written in the Book of Life. Only after Adam and Eve had been covered by the works of God were they MADE acceptable in His sight.

Catholicism is so much like the building of the calf. They just took something sacred and made a man-centered religion out of it. They are evil, they are murderous and are responsible for the decay of NT Christianity that you see today. From the rituals, to the celebration of pagan "holy days" to false teachers like Billy Sunday and Billy Graham, the Vatican has drug their filth all over people for centuries. There is nothing good about >ROMAN< catholicism. I ask one question to you boys and girls,"why do leaders of powerful nations kneel before that bastard in Rome?" Nah, I'll ask two questions while I'm pissed. "Knowing what we know about how government feels about us that believe on Jesus, how we are mocked and attacked, why did Billy Graham lie in state in the Capital Rotunda?"

Daylight, got to pick tomatoes( hopefully not many). Ya'll want a watermelon? I pulled 26 yesterday and I don't think that there are enough people around here to give them to

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:17 am

26 watermelons? Your garden must be huge!!! No wonder you're beat...
I'd love one...
And Praise God for the rain he sent!! Wonderful. Wink

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

In my opinion it doesn't matter who the Israelites crafted the golden calf to represent. If they crafted the image to represent The LORD God, other gods, any man, woman or child, or anything in heaven or the earth that in their hearts is idolized in any fashion......."It's all idolatry." The LORD God knows their hearts and their full intention. It applies the same for all of us today and on into the future as it did in the past. Nobody and I mean Nobody gets a get out of jail free card.

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

michael371 wrote:: I ask one question to you boys and girls, "why do leaders of powerful nations kneel before that bastard in Rome?"

As political leaders they are constantly seen in the eyes of the whole world. Some do it because they want to do it, and others do it because they think they must do it. The whole political arena is all about collecting as many brownie points as possible, whenever and however they can. Doesn't always mean they love it, but sometimes it takes sacrifice to appease.

Plain and simply, this is "The World".

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Romans 8:22........"For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now."

If this verse is indeed referring to "The Whole Creation", then this would certainly cover not only earthly creation but also the whole creation within the heavenly realms.

"The Whole Creation" is like a woman about to give birth.
This shows us the massive effect that rebellion has caused on the whole creation.

The effects run deeper than we humans have ever conceived. The pains of childbirth continue, but one day they will come to a climax. What will then come for the whole creation?

Isaiah 65:17........“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind."

I have long wondered if we will remember anything from our past life. If the former heavens and earth will not be remembered or even come to our mind......"How is it possible that we will remember anything of our life before the creation of the new heavens and new earth?"

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:56 am

Dove, my garden is around a half acre. I only had nine watermelon plants. The lack of rain caused them to be smaller than they are supposed to have been but they have been so good and sweet. There are still 4 or 5 still on the vines,too. My garden didn't used to be a big garden but it seems like it gets bigger every year, just like my powersaw gains weight every year. It is becoming too much, to be honest about it

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Yesterday I did a good study on the golden calf and let me tell you there are so many different ideas on it, that it blows my mind. This morning very early I read the whole thing for myself and I can see why there are so many different thoughts on the subject. I've read it in the past but I never really saw some of the things as I did this morning.

Why would Aaron craft with his on hands for the people an idol that he knew was a sin? After he had crafted the golden calf idol he tells the people........"Aaron called the people together and told them that the golden calf was the god who delivered them from Egypt."

Aaron made a proclamation and said, “Tomorrow shall be a feast to the Lord.”

Aaron most certainly knew who had delivered them from Egypt, and said the feast would be to the Lord.

It does appear to me that Aaron knew exactly what he was doing. It looks to me like he was merging the pagan practices they were familiar with and the worship of The LORD God. Wow!!! this certainly looks very familiar doesn't it?

When Moses ask Aaron why he did such a thing, Aaron appears to me to make up an excuse by dodging blame when he says........"So I said to them, ‘Let any who have gold take it off.’ So they gave it to me, and I threw it into the fire, and out came this calf.”

Aaron crafted it with his own hands, but now he is telling Moses it magically just appears and rises out of the fire after throwing in the gold jewelry.

Boy!! that whopper reminds me of some of the BS I would tell Mom and Dad trying to get out of a good ole butt whipping. It never worked for me, I always got what I deserved.

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

The making of a golden calf was not only limited to Exodus and Aaron but also to 1 Kings and two golden calves by Jeroboam.

1 Kings 12:26-33

Jeroboam said in his heart, "Now the kingdom will return to the house of David.

"If this people go up to offer sacrifices in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then the heart of this people will return to their lord, even to Rehoboam king of Judah; and they will kill me and return to Rehoboam king of Judah."

So the king consulted, and made two golden calves, and he said to them, "It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem; behold your gods, O Israel, that brought you up from the land of Egypt."

He set one in Bethel, and the other he put in Dan.

Now this thing became a sin, for the people went to worship before the one as far as Dan.

And he made houses on high places, and made priests from among all the people who were not of the sons of Levi.

Jeroboam instituted a feast in the eighth month on the fifteenth day of the month, like the feast which is in Judah, and he went up to the altar; thus he did in Bethel, sacrificing to the calves which he had made. And he stationed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made.

Then he went up to the altar which he had made in Bethel on the fifteenth day in the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised in his own heart; and he instituted a feast for the sons of Israel and went up to the altar to burn incense.

Why was it a golden calf and golden calves?

nationalgeographic.com puts it like this........"It was a symbol of virility and strength associated with the Canaanite god El, and such idolatry would persist into the period of the divided monarchy. King Jeroboam I of the Northern Kingdom of Israel commissioned two golden calves for the sanctuaries of Yahweh in Bethel and Dan, to serve as the Lord's attendants."

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:32 pm

I’d like some comment on this posting I put in Tidbits please. Be thinking of DNA and corrupting the image – being blotted out of the book of life – wishing for death and death fleeing from you that Revelation talks about. There is a 30 minute video embedded at the link below. Read my blurb, watch the video, and then start tearing into this corrupted image thing I seem to be sensing.

https://watchermeet-up.forumotion.com/t28274-tidbits-july-2022#116058

!! FOXTROT JULIET BRAVO !!

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

researcher wrote:: Be thinking of DNA and corrupting the image – being blotted out of the book of life – wishing for death and death fleeing from you that Revelation talks about. Read my blurb, watch the video, and then start tearing into this corrupted image thing I seem to be sensing.

Michael and I have written a few times on the subject. The prophecy in Revelation of desiring to die and death not occurring is something so very strange indeed. It's possible that very soon by screwing around with (DNA) human and mixing with many other subjects (DNA), there is no telling how serious the consequences may be.

Think about getting to the point of suffering at such a high degree, but the suffering never comes to an ending point of death.

The crown jewel "They" are searching for, that of stopping the aging process may very well turn out to be a horror rather than a jewel for the "First Subjects". Always remember, "They" will never be the human lab rats.

Revelation 9:6........"And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Michael I just copied and pasted your post to this thread. I know you stay very busy and I wanted to make sure we didn't forget about it........"Great Post."

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michael371 wrote:

Researcher, think back over the years about how much I have written about DNA and genetics from all the way back to the Garden until now. I am not shocked by the video at all, Appalled and disgusted? Sure, but I have suspected for a long time that this, or something like this, was going to happen. I have forgotten so much scripture over the years, but I seem to remember something ( I will try to look it up today or tonight) about the wombs drying up in the last days. Please don't hold me to that because I may have it all screwed up with something else. This forum is so important to me for just that very reason. I can write, all the while looking up scripture, debate, win some and admit defeat in others, and keep my mind working. The garden work saps both my mind and my ass of the needed energy to be able to think and remember correctly. Its just the way that it is now at my age. So yeah, I've been yelling about DNA being involved in the MOtB for many years. Something turned Nimrod into Gibbori (mighty hunter/KJV).

The golden calf story was far more interesting on the re-read than it has been in the past. Its probably a good analogy of mans attempt to make God into his own image rather than God making man into His image. The Israelites didn't know any better. They had just left a country filled with paganism, mystical bullshit and idolatry and rather than rely on the emissary (Moses/ a type of Christ) they took matters into their own hands. On this re-read, I was mystified at Aaron. What the hell was he thinking? Of all of them, he should have known better. Then he lied about it on top of the calf and the altar. Maybe the scripture is not clear about Aaron, but it sure looks like went along with it without putting up much resistance.

I lost my thinking pattern by Researchers video. I just wonder what happens now? It appears that the Monkey Pox will be the next thing. From what I have read, the best vaccine is to have sex with a woman if you are a male, and a woman needs to make sure that her husband is not bisexual. Things should be fine under those conditions.

BTW, I loved Gaetz's speech and statements about ugly women and abortion. Bwhaaaaa, built in birth control, lol

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:06 am

ScaRZ, thanks for transferring Mike's post to this thread. I was planning to do it myself latter in the day but you beat me to the punch.

cheers

!! FOXTROT JULIET BRAVO !!

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Quote :: michael371 wrote

I have forgotten so much scripture over the years, but I seem to remember something ( I will try to look it up today or tonight) about the wombs drying up in the last days.

Michael I don't know if this is what you are referring to or not. It comes from Hosea and is about the tribe of Ephraim.

Hosea 9:11-17

Ephraim's glory shall fly away like a bird—
no birth, no pregnancy, no conception!

Even if they bring up children,
I will bereave them till none is left.
Woe to them
when I depart from them!

Ephraim, as I have seen, was like a young palm planted in a meadow;
but Ephraim must lead his children out to slaughter.

Give them, O LORD—
what will you give?
Give them a miscarrying womb
and dry breasts.

Every evil of theirs is in Gilgal;
there I began to hate them.
Because of the wickedness of their deeds
I will drive them out of my house.
I will love them no more;
all their princes are rebels.

Ephraim is stricken;
their root is dried up;
they shall bear no fruit.
Even though they give birth,
I will put their beloved children to death.

My God will reject them
because they have not listened to him;
they shall be wanderers among the nations.

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Hosea 4:17........"Ephraim is joined to idols; leave him alone."

Hosea 4:15

Though you play the whore, O Israel,
let not Judah become guilty.
Enter not into Gilgal,
nor go up to Beth-aven,
and swear not, “As the LORD lives.”

Reading all of this now I get a better understanding why Ephraim is not listed in Revelation as one of the twelve tribes........"As well as Dan."

Well it's time to revisit the idol golden calves once again and see how it all ties together.

"After seeking advice, the king [Jeroboam, of the Northern Tribes] made two golden calves. He said to the people, “It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem. Here are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.” One he set up in Bethel [which was controlled by the tribe of Ephraim, Jeroboam’s tribe], and the other in Dan. And this thing became a sin; the people came to worship the one at Bethel and went as far as Dan to worship the other."

The tribes of Ephraim and Dan became the centers of idolatry for the Northern Kingdom. Instead of going to God’s Temple in Jerusalem to worship and offer sacrifices, the citizens of the northern tribes (all except Benjamin and Judah) would worship at these two centers of idolatry. Hosea even changes the name “Bethel” (meaning “House of God”) to Beth Aven (“House of Wickedness")........(Hosea 4:15).....See above!!!

Think how The Book of Revelation points out to us how wickedly idolatry is. Look how "The World" worships the beast and the image of the beast in the latter days.

We are to worship........"worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.” (Rev. 14:7) But through no forms of Idolatry.

We are to worship The LORD God who made the heavens, the earth, the waters, but never anything that represents the heavens, the earth, the waters in any form.

Exodus 20:4........"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth."

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:07 am

[ltr]The tribe of Ephraim was one of the more prominent tribes of the Northern Kingdom and had all of its territory in the Northern Kingdom of Israel, after the split between Northern Kingdom and Southern Kingdom (Judah), after the death of Solomon.[/ltr]

[ltr]It is a kind of term where part is used to refer to the whole (I forget the grammatical term, but I am sure somebody will tell me). But we refer to the Northern Kingdom (especially in poetry and ‘prophecy’) as ‘Ephraim’ even though there were roughly ten tribes as part of that assembly, and we call the Southern Kingdom ‘Judah’ for about the same reason - Judah was the largest and most prominent tribe of the Southern Kingdom (and also the tribe of the hereditary kings).[/ltr]

[ltr]One has to be careful with the name of Ephraim because it is often meant to cover all ten ten of the northern tribes. So does the name "Israel".[/ltr]

[ltr]I was going to write some more concerning the calf but FireFox is going wonky. It does this when it has updates, so for whatever reason, after it updates I'll need to restart but its daylight anyway. I'm not going to do much outside today due to miserable conditions and a wore out ass. I do know that I need to re-read Exodus.. Lots of weird stuff in there but I suspect its weird due to my lack of understanding some of it[/ltr]

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

This question was ask. Am I/ Are We needed by God?

If anyone decides to take part please do so. I want to know how each of you would answer this question with your own words, not words from someone else. Don't copy and paste something from a web site or post a link to a web site.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:38 pm

I could answer this so many ways... I believe that God wants us to be in His kingdom and to have us on His team. Does He want us- I say yes. Does He need us ? I'd say in a careful way that we are here to do something important .. maybe turn folks towards the Lord... maybe reflect His presence in our lives to positively influence others to join His Way.
He is all powerful so He may not need us but He wants us. I'm glad He wants me .. My life would be worthless if not for Him allowing me to be able to see things as I do.
I'll give you a little example (many from the past) of what happened to me the past 2 days. I've had 3 little baby peafowl and their mother that I've been taking care of. Feeding watering and keeping them safe etc... I love the little things very much and am thankful . This is addition to the other 7 peafowl that roost in a tree by the house at night. ( They prefer that to the enclosure I made out of a cotton trailer for them when they were young and where the baby peafowl and their mama reside. ) Well 2 days ago , sister and I went to Texarkana to see my Aunt. I fed , watered the little peepers/cheepers and mama and shut the door and we left on the trip. I got back yesterday and the door to their coop was wide open. I ran to look and no babies nor mother anywhere... gone...nothing but quiet and feathers everywhere.. My heart was broken. I loved the little things and it was evident that I hadn't shut the door properly.. I didn't sleep but kept reliving their likely demise by coons/possums/ foxes that roam here at night. I woke up this morning and went to search.. nothing but those feathers.. Sad ,sad sack I was.. I asked the Lord that they didn't suffer and sadly went with my sister to see my niece that is also a believer and prayerful- a good consoler.
After I came back home and worked a bit , I thought I'd go lock up the coop to keep wild animals out during the night as always, and ..... I heard cheeping and peeping !!! I asked the Lord- "Can it be Lord ! can it be !" Yes!!!. all 3 were back in the coop along with their mama. How they survived outside was a miracle and 2 nights !! .. impossible but for the Good Lord protecting them for me to find joy with. My bil asked me "how did they get back in and up on the porch?" I told him that the Lord scooped them up and put them back inside to safety. He thinks I'm a bit crazy but I'm not .. I just know miracles never cease for those that love the Lord .

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Thank you Bordercollie for your answer to the question. I certainly believe you and I are on the same page. I wanted a true in the heart response from anyone who chose to give an answer......."And you gave a very heart felt response." I was hoping to not receive a short Yes! or No! with no substance from people.

Someone who took the time to ask this question was not attempting it as a trap question. It was ask because they did not understand the full impact of the question, and it sadden them. When they heard from someone that God does not need anything........"Because he is perfect", it made them feel that God really didn't have a need for their love. This was my response to their question below.

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This is how I answered that question.

We humans are all needy........"Think of what we truly need, not what we think we need." There is no doubting in all of us there is a hunger, a desire to be needed. A dark pit of feeling unneeded leads to loneliness and a deep severe depression can take hold. Just think how many people each and every day though out this whole earth take their own lives because they do not feel needed.

We all definitely need God, although many of us reject God. I believe in each and every one of us there is a huge dark hole, and that hole can only be filled by God. With rejection of God we continue on and on in a constant consuming attempt to find a substitute that will fill that huge dark hole. But no matter what we do that hole can not be filled with anyone or anything other than God.

All of us were created to be in the image and likeness of God. If our desire to be needed is in part a reflection of the image and likeness of God, then we have our answer. I believe we are not only here because we are needed by each other, but I also believe God desires just like ourselves, to be needed.

Is this not what true love is about? There are two sides of the coin in true love, giving love and receiving love. In a relationship if there is one individual doing all the giving love and the other does all the receiving love, how can the relationship survive?

Why am I here? I never ask to be born. Some will say, your parents are the reason you are here........"But, they never ask to be born either." Nobody ask to be born.

Why would we be here if we were not needed by God?

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:03 am

I love your story, Judy.

I've often heard it said, God made man and woman because He wanted a family.

As He is a personal God, one who watches over us and cares for us, I have no problem
seeing the relationship playing out very much as it does for earthly families.

We have an inheritance if we are not estranged. If we have not abandoned God in favor of
making our own way.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:33 am

Short answer in human terms is "NO" God does not need man. God does need anything nor does God "want" anything. He doesn't "try" to do anything, He either does it or He don't. This the entity that spoke and nothing became everything. I can only speculate as to why God created mankind and its never a good thing for a mortal to try and understand the mind of a three times holy God. For no telling how many eons God made it just fine without these rebellious,corrupt and contemptible mounds of clay. I suspect the creation had more to do with the rebellion of the angels than it did with a desire to create a new creature form. They were told to serve mankind and some didn't like it so God rubbed it in good. Pure speculation,though.

I heard a statement one time concerning the will of God that I think of very often. It was right on point with what I am saying," If God wants to do something than you can't stop Him and if He doesn't want to do something thn you can't make Him." So, its a very good thing that God is a compassionate, forgiving, loving God or we'd be up a creek without a paddle. God loves His Son but he loves his adopted sons and daughters,too, but He don't need us adoptees. He could destroy us and create another race if He actually "needed" someone. Good discussion point though

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

This is where you and I disagree Michael. If God has absolutely no need of us, then I will say it again......."Then why are we here?"........."Why were we ever born?" God is perfect......God has no needs, no desires, no wants, no needs for relationships, doesn't need anything or anyone, and doesn't need love because he is love. Are we to be only a pleasure to God, and that's it?........"But wait God wouldn't need pleasure either.......God has no needs at all.

In the very first verse of Genesis it reads......"In the beginning". This was not the beginning for God, because God had no beginning. So there was no beginning, only nothingness until God chose a beginning of creating something.......Why did he choose to create something if he did not want it, desire it, have a need for it?.......It can not be for pleasure as I hear many say......"Pleasure is something."

There was nothing but God, God is perfect, God is eternal in nothingness until God chooses to do something about it. God is love, but in nothingness all there would be is "Self Love". Without something there is nothing to love, but self.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:22 am

There was a full consortium of angelic beings in the heavens (the unseen realms) before Adam.
The Kingdom of God existed before man.

It must be that they established the earth with flora, fauna, animals, etc., and tended to it all. Don't get me wrong.
God gave Life to all. The angels carried out the details of His imagination, His design.
---
And, I needed to post some things and lost my train of thought.

But we need to expand our thinking. God is so much bigger. Think on the things God asked Job. Wink

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Yes Dove! you are correct, we do need to expand our thinking.

I was just trying to make a point in my earlier post. I believe 100% that if we were not needed, if "Nothing" was needed by God, then why did God ever begin creation?

God at some point chose to create a heavenly spiritual realm as the upper realm and at some point create a lower realm. And that certainly never limits God not creating other realms.

There was no heaven, no host of heaven at one point, only God and complete nothingness until God chose to begin creation. I don't care how old or how young this earth is. It doesn't matter, if this earth is 6,000 years old or 888 Trillion years old.

Before heaven, before earth there existed God for all eternity. Was it that in the beginning of this heaven and this earth creation, that is all Genesis 1 is pointing to as pertains to "In The Beginning"?...........How many other creations were there long before the heaven and earth creations? We know for sure after this age passes away, this creation of heaven and earth will be no more........"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth".

Here is something else I think about all the time.

If our earthly parents (mother/father) tell their children they have no need of them, how severally will those children be effected? A child that knows they are not needed will live a life of feeling worthless.

If my Heavenly Father has no need of me, his child, then would I not also feel worthless and have no meaning in my life?

The word "Need" has many paths doesn't it?

We forget a lot of times that Jesus was just as much a human as we are. Jesus was the Son of Man and The Only Begotten Son of God.......He was God in the flesh, he was "One" with the Father......" the Father is in me and I am in the Father."

With Jesus, God was able to experience, what it was like to be a flesh and blood...."Clay" man. The only difference in you and I is that Jesus never rebelled......"He never sinned". He never bowed to the will of the flesh, he overcame the flesh by doing The Will of The Father.

God as a man (Jesus) experienced what it was like to be tempted, to hunger, to thirst, to need as a man, to be needed as a man, to love as a man, to be loved as a man, to suffer, to desire, to hope, to heal, to dream, to taste sadness,.......etc.. (I could go on and on)

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:46 pm

There are many things I'd love to throw out here for opinion/Bible interpretation and all of your understanding...some on things of old, some new.

It seems transhumanism (AI) has to be the endtimes mix of part iron, part clay. Yes?

There are so many 'slippery slopes' on the road ahead, and we're much closer to it than a
non-student normie might ever suspect, including so many Christians or other religions, or students of history and current events. One has to know the activities of the 2nd 'government' that sits over the world and exactly how advanced they are.
But we're in good shape to discern.

We may be having the 'visitation' fairly soon. And it may well bring the Unity of mankind that
Raegan spoke of. I'd really like to know more about the 'war in heaven' fought between the angels
that comes to the earth. I do think we're already in the midst of it, and though it doesn't look it,
we are winning. Just watch the dominos fall.
---

This is a short video of Gen. 6, the fallen angels and Nephilim. I'm still watching, but Bible is
clear the children of fallen angels and daughters are not the Nephilim. And he used cross reference
to simplify some other points you've no doubt covered and I've had to miss.
---------
Another thing we haven't mentioned is a possible gap in the Revelation timeline. Daniel didn't
have any gap. Yet, some scrolls were sealed up. Wink

Wonder what they said. Wink

One thing is for sure. We're being encouraged to stand up in the Power of the Spirit and to deny
evil at every turn. And we'd be nowhere if it wasn't for help that I can only call Divinely sent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKtHwc3mMY8

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:48 am

An Almighty God God that was once going to destroy all of humanity with a flood, has a need for us? I guess your idea of God is different from mine. To have a God that "needs" us does nothing but elevate man and deminish God. We'll have to disagree on this one Scarz. Not the first time, and won't be the last.

"God, on the other hand, is not dependent on anything or anyone. He suffers no lack, knows no limitation, and experiences no deficiency. He is “I AM THAT I AM,” with no qualification or exception ([url=https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Exod 3.14]Exodus 3:14[/url]). If He needed anything to stay alive or to feel complete, then He would not be God."

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michael371 wrote:: I guess your idea of God is different from mine.

As I said......"Need" has more than one path. I understand everything you are saying. But I don't believe you understand where I'm coming from. I would say 95% of the mainstream think pretty much as yourself. I knew it before I ever put the question in this thread. First and foremost I don't give answers to please anyone, and I expect the same from you and others. Just because we have different ideas on subjects, doesn't keep us from being in Christ......."Does it?"

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Dove wrote:: It seems transhumanism (AI) has to be the endtimes mix of part iron, part clay. Yes?

You bring up a great question, it does make us think......"It very well could be."

I listened to the video you posted around a month ago and I do not agree with his take on The Nephilim. I've posted my thoughts on (The Sons of God, The Watchers, The Nephilim, The Giants, The Hero's of Old) several times in the Three Threads.

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

I just read some of this and thought that some here might look into it also. Dig into it and maybe we will have something new to discuss........"At first glance it looks interesting."

**************************

https://thejournalofcosmology.com/Puthoff.pdf

1. There is an unidentified phenomenon interacting with the current
human population on Earth;

2. It is currently unknown whether the phenomenon is exclusively
extraterrestrial, extradimensional, crypto-terrestrial, demonic/djinn,
proto/ancient human, time-travelers, etc., or some combination or
mutation of any or all of these. However, it appears highly likely
that the phenomenon per se is not constituted exclusively of
members of the current human population.

In this paper we address the above under the overarching theme
Ultraterrestrials in order to develop a template to be matched against data at hand and that may be procured in the future.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:01 am

Maybe transposing 'desire' for 'need' helps? Want vs need.
I'm thinking those who perished in the flood were 'dead'
anyway.
Noah and family were the only ones 'worthy' of carrying on the Fellowship Life of God with man. And bloodlines probably factored in.

Kind of like no M13 gang member is invited to my house except he become a 'new person'.
Those who built Babylon were actual enemies of God, raising up their own Kingdom to stand against
God as we know Him, and take His place.
---
Nephilim? I was thinking he had it, but I didn't finish it to hear what he said they were/are.
Only what he thought they aren't.
I don't even recall anymore what they might be. Are they around today?

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

michael371 wrote:: To have a God that "needs" us does nothing but elevate man and deminish God.

I'm certainly not elevating man to diminish God. This is why I said I do not think you understand my thoughts. No matter how I word it, you see all of it as a take away from The LORD God. This is just not true at all.

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Dove wrote:: I don't even recall anymore what they might be. Are they around today?

My thoughts on The Nephilim (Hero's of Old, Giants) are that they are the offspring of The Sons of God (Watchers) who chose on their own to leave the heavenly realm and enter into our earthly realm and mate with women of this earth. The Nephilim are a hybrid. The flood of Noah whipped them out, but we know from The Bible that The Nephilim (Giants) did enter the picture again and David killed off the last of them.

I have no idea as of this day, if they have made a return.

That's just a very small snippet.

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Dove wrote:: Those who built Babylon were actual enemies of God, raising up their own Kingdom to stand against
God as we know Him, and take His place.

Very well said Dove and I agree.

The Tower of Babel can be seen as an attempt being equal with God.........Genesis 11:4........"Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth."

I think back to The Tower of Babel and how God's divine power had to step in to prevent their venture from going forward. As Genesis is clear on, nothing would be restrained from them accomplishing, if it wasn't stopped.

Genesis 11:6........"And the LORD said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them."

When it says nothing it means "Nothing". I know it can be hard to believe but that is what scripture says.

We can be like God.
We can achieve eternal life.
We will gain wisdom equal with God.

I believe these listed above are goals of the elite in these last days and their attempts of finding the key to obtain these goals are for them a never ending search.

Will the goals of the elite come close enough of being accomplished that a similar action of restraint will be needed by God to keep them from reaching their goals?

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Dove wrote:: There was a full consortium of angelic beings in the heavens (the unseen realms) before Adam.
The Kingdom of God existed before man.

It is certain that Christ is the center and head of the creation or universe, as St. Paul already stated (Col. 1, 16-17). Therefore there exists no world which is not related to Him.

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

My point of saying "Need" has many paths is the fact that the word need reflects so many different ways we think of the word when using it.

When I read the question that was ask by someone....."Am I/ Are We needed by God?"

I viewed the the word "Needed", certainly not God is needful of me/us for existence. I took the question they ask as........"Why am I here, if I am not needed/wanted by God for some purpose?......That was my understanding of the question they ask.(And it was.)

I've heard people say God doesn't need arms, legs, fingers, toes, eyes, ears, a mouth....etc. That is true, but if God chooses to want them, he will have them.

What is there/ who is there that restrains God from having what he chooses?....."Nothing, Nobody".........God is limitless!!

God is not finite, he has no limits.

God chose relationship over self only. God chose to be in a relationship with those in the heavenly realm as well as those in the earthly realm. All God's creation serves a purpose, all God's creation is wanted, all God's creation......." has a need or God would never have created it.

God creates and shapes as he chooses.

Why is God jealous?........" for I the LORD your God am a jealous God"........"for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God"

This is The LORD God's zeal/passion to preserve and protect a possession or a relationship that is precious to Him. So, God’s name is Jealous.

Here for me is a great example of The Lord Jesus Christ and a need....."Think of the way the word need reflects it's true meaning."

Matthew 21:1-3

And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,

Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.

And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.

The Lord had a need for them, and also a need for the two disciples to bring them to him. They all served a purpose for The Lord.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:02 pm

Just a pop in with a link I had up. Really nice index to find things, looks like

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/revelation.html

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Dove wrote:: Just a pop in with a link I had up. Really nice index to find things, looks like

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/revelation.html

Great source! Thank you Dove for posting a link.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:39 pm

Maybe not so good. I looked today and see Catholicism and Loyola University.

I suppose the verse location is okay.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Yes Dove, it takes you to all kind of writings. I remember back several years ago coming across that site. If anyone is interested in certain writings, they are easy to find there. For me it was just a great site for research. Everybody needs to realize what it is, first and foremost.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:50 am

Wow! I don't claim to be a bible scholar but I do have a pretty good grasp on things for a redneck(compared to most folks of today) but I came across something yesterday when listening to S. Chronister give a lecture that I left me dumbfounded. It was a horrific story that I had never heard nor do I remember reading it. I need a little help here to try to understand it. I'm going to do some reading about it as soon as I do my walkaround with the dogs. I had never heard this story before even though it is similar to Lot and his daughters when the angels came to his house. I'll do a c/p so ya'll can read about it. This is something that I just don't get:

The concubine of a Levite is likely a lesser wife, who perhaps was unfaithful and left her husband. After her husband finds her, the house in which they are staying is threatened by a group of Benjaminite men who wish to have sex with the Levite. Their host offers the concubine in the Levite’s place, which they reject; she is then thrown outside to them and they rape her until the morning, when she returns to the house and is near death. In retaliation for this act, the Israelites launch a series of attacks on the Benjaminites. The narrative of the concubine is horrifying and shows the chaos of life before monarchial rule was established.
Contents
1
Background of the Concubine
2
Analysis
3
The Death of the Concubine
4 Bibliography

Background of the Concubine

The story of the unnamed woman in Judges 19–20 is one of the most disturbing texts in the Hebrew Bible. The woman, who is from Bethlehem but lives with a Levite in the hill country of Ephraim, north of Jerusalem, is referred to in Hebrew as the pilegesh of the Levite. The precise nature of the relationship between a man and his pilegesh is not always clear from the biblical texts, however, and scholars have sometimes disagreed about the term’s meaning. It is usually translated into English as “concubine” and understood to refer to a wife or sexual partner of secondary status. Although certain men in the Hebrew Bible have both wives and concubines, no wives or additional concubines are referred to in Judges 19.
The Levite is referred to as the “husband” of the woman (19:3; 20:4) and the “son-in-law” of the woman’s father (19:5), who in turn is referred to as the Levite’s “father-in-law” (19:4, 7, 9). The uncertain nature of the differences between a wife and a concubine reveals the complexities involved in understanding notions of kinship and marriage presupposed by biblical narratives.
The Hebrew text states that the woman “prostituted herself against” the Levite (19:2). Thus, it has often been assumed that she was sexually unfaithful to him. Certain Greek translations, however, state that she “became angry” with him. The latter interpretation is accepted by a number of commentators and modern English translations, including the NRSV, since the woman goes to her father’s house rather than the house of a male lover. It is also possible that the woman’s “prostitution” does not refer to literal sexual infidelity but is a sort of metaphor for the fact that she leaves her husband. The act of leaving one’s husband is quite unusual in the Hebrew Bible, and the harsh language used to describe it could result from the fact that it was viewed in a very negative light.

See Also:

The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 4 066.The_Levite_Carries_the_Woman%27s_Body_Away

The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 4 066.The_Levite_Carries_the_Woman%27s_Body_Away

Encyclopedia: Concubine of a Levite: Midrash and Aggadah

Four months after the woman returns to Bethlehem, the Levite goes after her. Although the Hebrew text states that he wishes to “speak to her heart” (19:3; NRSV, “speak tenderly to her”), no discussion between the Levite and the woman is recounted. Indeed, the text never records any of the woman’s words. The woman’s father acts as if he is glad to see the Levite, but for several days he delays the return of the Levite and the woman to Ephraim. Because of this delay the travelers finally set out at a late hour and, due to the unwillingness of the Levite to spend the night in a city of “foreigners” (19:12), arrive at the Benjaminite city of Gibeah after the sun has gone down.

Analysis

Although hospitality to strangers was an important custom in the ancient world, the travelers initially have a difficult time finding a place to spend the night. They are finally offered hospitality by an old man who, like the Levite, is from Ephraim. While the travelers are eating, the house is surrounded by men of the city who, according to the Hebrew text, wish “to know” the Levite (19:22). “To know” is probably a euphemism for sexual intercourse here, as it is in other biblical texts and as the NRSV translates it. The Ephraimite host attempts to dissuade the men of the city from raping his male guest, offering to them his own daughter and the Levite’s concubine in place of the Levite.
Several elements in this part of the story, including the offer of two women as objects of rape in the place of a male object, are very similar to elements of the story of Lot and his daughters (Gen 19:1– Cool

. Apparently, the sexual violation of women was considered less shameful than that of men, at least in the eyes of other men. Such an attitude reflects both the social subordination of women and the fact that homosexual rape was viewed as a particularly severe attack on male honor.

The Death of the Concubine

When the men of Gibeah refuse to accept the two women, one of the men inside the house throws the concubine outside. Interpreters generally agree that it is the Levite who throws her to the crowd, though the text only states ambiguously that “the man seized his concubine, and put her out to them” (Judg 19:25) without noting specifically which man is meant. The woman is then raped by the men of Gibeah throughout the night. They do not kill her, however, for in the morning she returns to the house from which she was thrown and collapses at the door. The Levite finds her there when he rises to leave and orders her to get up. When she does not respond, for she apparently is near death, he places her on the back of his donkey and returns to Ephraim.
The text does not tell us exactly when or how the woman dies. The Levite, upon his arrival in Ephraim, cuts the woman’s body into twelve pieces and sends these pieces throughout the land. As a result of this action, the Israelites gather at Mizpah, a traditional site of tribal assembly, to listen to the Levite’s story and plan a response to the Benjaminites. A cycle of violence ensues, resulting in the slaughter of many Benjaminite men, women, and children (20:35–48), the slaughter of most of the inhabitants of the city of Jabesh-gilead (21:8–12), and the kidnapping of young women at Shiloh (21:15–24).
It unlikely that any of the characters in this troubling tale are meant to be understood in an entirely positive light. The story is placed in a section of Judges (chaps. 17–21) illustrating the social and religious chaos that preceded the institution of Israelite kingship. The horror of the tale represents extreme disorder, to be rectified only by the establishment of monarchic rule. The fate of the concubine is particularly gruesome, however, and the story has appropriately been called a “text of terror” by one feminist commentator (Trible).

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Michael......That is truly evil. I can't understand the point of any of the savageness. This is truly beast in nature.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:36 am

here is the link

https://www.cliffside.org/media/j838m2t/joel-178-who-were-these-giants-how-big-are-they-is-this-connected-to-the-bloody-stumps

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The nations of this world, the kingdoms, and governments are still ruled over by dark forces (Fallen Sons of God). They do not always get along and war with each other......."Power and Control"

There is a spiritual war going on all the time around us, and I certainly believe it bleeds into our realm.

Daniel 10:12-14

Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.

But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

Some good comments on this passage from Ron Dart's booklet he wrote called "The Tracks of the Devil".

Now the vision Daniel received in answer to his prolonged prayer is fascinating enough, but in the process of revealing the vision, the messenger of God dropped a small piece of tantalizing information. Most of us believe that God is all powerful, that all He has to do is say the word and all powers, human and demonic, fall down before Him. Yet here is an emissary of God who is held up for three weeks by someone called the 'Prince of Persia.' Who is this 'Prince of Persia' and how was he able to thwart an angel of the Almighty?

Consider the picture. Daniel fasts and prays to God. God hears him and immediately dispatches an answer. The problem is that Daniel is inside the kingdom of Persia, and God's messenger has to fight his way in! It is no small battle—it takes three weeks to make it. Think what this means. There was a spirit being, called the Prince of Persia, who was strong enough to stand off an angel of God for three weeks. In the end, it takes two to one odds to win, and the battle is still not over. Michael, another Prince of God, keeps the Prince of Persia busy while the angel comes to Daniel to deliver the message.

One would have thought that God could have whispered in Daniel's ear, or that the angel could simply have materialized in Daniel's room....What this story reveals to us, almost as an aside, is that there is a spiritual world alongside our world, invisible to us, but real, vibrant, alive and dangerous. We use the word infrastructure to describe the physical structure underlying our society—water pipes, sewers, utilities—things underground and invisible, but real and necessary, nonetheless. What comes as a shock is the fact that there is also a spiritual infrastructure—unseen, unsensed, invisible, but nonetheless real and powerful. Not only is there a spirit world co-existing with our own, but there are spiritual battles routinely fought around us, and the outcome is by no means automatic (p.3-4).

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Hi guys, after a little back and forth with ScaRZ it was suggested that i should post the series i wrote in here, link below.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvhHGF6oZGejeZ73LhmaLEfebNE?e=as5Xft

I designed it to inform total unbelievers what i believe and why i believe it. For readers of this forum the majority of the articles within the series you will have good knowledge of anyway, so if you wish to have a read you may be best starting around article 9 in the series.

If you have anyone you know who is an unbeliever and would like to reach out to them, then the entirety of the series will be useful in doing that.

I start off with the genesis 6 scenario of the fallen angels mating with women and follow it through from the ancient past to the present day. From there i delve into the build up to the tribulation, including the rapture, the psalm 83 invasion and the war of Gog & Magog of Ezekiel 38. The series finishes off with a focus on who the Antichrist is and why on a biological and psychological basis mankind needs a saviour.
The last few parts of the series is where the real powder keg stuff is, im very interested to hear everyones thoughts on it.
Any questions on the series i'm available to answer any queries you have.

Cheers

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

thefatcon......I reread your thoughts on Daniel 11.

Your view on Daniel 11:40...... The King of The North being The Antichrist, and The King of The South being Jesus Christ, just doesn't make sense to me at all. Jesus Christ is The King of Kings. I just don't see the connection at all to The King of The South.

"If" the verses of Daniel 11:39-45 are pointing to the end of days Antichrist, then the "Him and He" spoken of in verse 40 and beyond, I view as The Antichrist, not The King of The North. I view both The King of The North and The King of The South as coming against "Him = The Antichrist".

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ScaRZ wrote:: thefatcon......I reread your thoughts on Daniel 11.

Your view on Daniel 11:40...... The King of The North being The Antichrist, and The King of The South being Jesus Christ, just doesn't make sense to me at all. Jesus Christ is The King of Kings. I just don't see the connection at all to The King of The South.

"If" the verses of Daniel 11:39-45 are pointing to the end of days Antichrist, then the "Him and He" spoken of in verse 40 and beyond, I view as The Antichrist, not The King of The North. I view both The King of The North and The King of The South as coming against "Him = The Antichrist".

A back and forth over biblical interpretation, now this is why i'm here.

I do concur the verses you state are about the Antichrist, but we have to back up a bit for greater context as to who the King of the North is. Daniel 11 gives us the rundown as to the start of the King of the Norths empire in the breakup of Alexander the Greats empire at his death, with General Seluceus according to secular history taking over a portion of Alexanders empire to become the first King of the North.

We follow his line and their wars against the King of the South, the Ptolemic line, until we get to Antiochus Epiphanies who in retreat from Egypt after failing to defeat his Ptolemaic counterpart in the King of the South performs the Abomination of Desolation on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

The text of Daniel 11:40 ["And at the time of the end..."] then jumps forward in time to the Tribulation as the text is covering the Abomination of Desolation. It does this as it is an event that links the two Kings of the North, Antiochus Epiphanies as a type of Antichrist in the past, and the coming Antichrist. From this we should be left in no doubt that the future Antichrist is known as the King of the North due to his replication of the act of the Abomination of Desolation which the past King of the North also performed.

I can see how you reached you conclusion when viewing the verse of Daniel 11:40 in isolation, but i look at the entirety of Daniel 11 and think the very reason for that chapters existence is to inform the reader about the Antichrist and the King of the North being one and the same.

The issue may be in relying on the KJV for such a critical interpretation. Don't get me wrong the KJV is my go to translation in my studies, but at times its good to cross reference it against other translations to make sure we see the whole picture. Lets look at the NLT version of the verse.

"Then at the time of the end, the king of the south will attack the king of the north. The king of the north will storm out with chariots, charioteers, and a vast navy. He will invade various lands and sweep through them like a flood."
[Daniel 11:40 NLT]

The two Kings do not attack the Antichrist but each other, with the Antichrist and the King of the North being one and the same.
I have made my case for the King of the North being the Antichrist, so we are back to who the King of the South is. My article went with Jesus for various reasons i won't divulge here so not to give out spoilers for those yet to read it. One point i will make however is just who in the world could possibly stand up to the Antichrist when he comes upon the world? I see a Genesis 6 scenario once more were the angels with all their technological advancement are once more free to be seen and interact with the world with the Antichrist at the head of it all. We can look to Revelation for a hint of this.

"And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"
[Revelation 13:4]

Lets say a nation goes rogue on the Antichrist during the tribulation, even if they where armed with nuclear weapons they don't stand a chance against a spiritual foe. Look at the death and destruction that is wreaked upon the earth during the tribulation, meteor strikes, disease, starvation, the release of a 200 million being army from under the Euphrates. we are looking at the deaths of billions of people and the near destruction of the earth. The only one who could possibly stand against the Anti-messiah is the true Messiah, as again Revelation shows us.

"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war...And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."
[Revelation 19:11, 19-20]

Enjoy the back and forth about this, hope to have advanced the conversation on and look forward to any and all responses, whether they agree with me or not.

Elite Posts : 1958 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

The thing is I've read what you have written. In my opinion I see nothing that leads me to believe The King of The South is Jesus Christ. There are nations of the world that will come against The Antichrist and The Book of Daniel most certainly points to them. There is no doubting they make a stand no matter how it turns out for them.

I read different versions of The Bible, not just the KJV. It doesn't matter which version, because I compare the same verses. The versions I use most often are KJV, ESV, and NASB. I also don't just read one verse......"I study the complete Chapters and do a lot of research on the many subjects of The Bible."

I just don't see it the way you do in The Book of Daniel. Some of your views I can agree with, but there are things we are far apart on. I can tell you are a pre-trib rapture believer, I am not. We might as well get that out in the open. That being the case, we will be far apart in many, many areas of thinking on several Biblical subjects.

If The Antichrist rules the entire countries of this whole earth, then why is he so worried about news coming out of the east and the north (Dan 11:44)? Every person on the face of this earth does not worship him. People take the word "All" and think that means the entire literal earth. There are going to be sheep and goat nations, they are not all goat nations.

Dan 11:44........"But news from the east and the north shall alarm him, and he shall go out with great fury to destroy and devote many to destruction."

We must take a closer look at scripture to determine whether “All” must always be understood in a literal, universal sense. We can find out very quickly that it doesn't.

Mark 1:5........“And there went out unto him ALL the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were ALL baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”

Do you think for one second that every single person (All) in that area was baptized?...."No Way!"

Luke 2:1-3........“And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that ALL the world should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And ALL went to be taxed, every one into his own city.”

Was literally the whole world taxed?...."No it wasn't!"

Ezra 1:2........“Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD Elohim of heaven hath given me ALL the kingdoms of the earth;”

I'll say it again, no way every literal kingdom on the face of this whole earth. What about the native Indians in North and South America? Was the Gospel preached to the whole literal earth during the lives of the disciples? These verses are just a very small sample, The Bible is full of them. These verses are obvious examples of a figure of speech known as a "synecdoche'.

synecdoche.....a figure of speech by which a part is put for the whole, or the whole for a part.

It's all about in most cases the Biblical writers known world. The vast majority centers around the middle east and those people and countries in and around that area.

The Antichrist cannot have dominion over the whole literal planet (All) if even one nation is able to “escape his hand.”

Daniel 11:41........"He shall come into the glorious land. And tens of thousands shall fall, but these shall be delivered out of his hand: Edom and Moab and the main part of the Ammonites."

A great multitude “Which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues” will come out of Great Tribulation (Revelation 7:9,14). If this great multitude comes out of Great Tribulation, then there is no doubting they had to be in Great Tribulation. And without any doubt while they were in Great Tribulation they did not worship The Antichrist. Not everyone in the literal whole earth is in The Antichrist back pocket.

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