The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

I'm going to take this back to Gog and Magog again. Here below is a little more detail where Michael Heiser takes Gog as Antichrist and The Adversary (Satan).

This below is how Cris D. Putnam lays it out.

Much has been written associating the Magog war of Ezekiel 38-39 with the battle of Armageddon. There are demonstrable parallels yet seemingly the book of Revelation explicitly places it one thousand years after Armageddon. ( Rev 19:19 ), {Rev 20:8} Amillennialists (those who deny the 1000 year kingdom) like Kline attempt to conflate the battles described in Revelation 19 and 20. Yet this lacks coherence as Heiser points out several insurmountable difficulties to this view. Still, both Kline and Heiser agree that Gog can be associated with the Antichrist. This finds support in the Qumran War Scroll (1QM), which reveals it is Satan and his powers that are behind the usurpers:

"For this shall be a time of distress for Israel, [and of the summons] to war against all the nations. There shall be eternal deliverance for the company of God, but destruction for all the nations of wickedness. All those [who are ready] for battle shall march out and shall pitch their camp before the king of the Kittim and before all the host of Satan gathered about him for the Day [of Revenge] by the Sword of God."

The Qumran War Scroll reflects the same end time war as the Ezekiel text and accredits it to Satan. However, in Revelation 20 the Antichrist has been defeated and what is described is the release of Satan. Heiser convincingly solves this by viewing Gog as both. He writes, “I have argued that Ezekiel 38-39 will be fulfilled in two events: (1) Armageddon, which also is the fulfillment of Daniel 11:40-45, and (2) The subsequent, separate battle of Rev. 20:7-9.

"He shall come into the glorious land. And tens of thousands shall fall, but these shall be delivered out of his hand: Edom and Moab and the main part of the Ammonites." (Da 11:41).

“And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea." {Re 20:7–8}

Thus the Satanically possessed Beast of Revelation is Gog in the battle of Armageddon and Satan himself is Gog in the post-millennium war. While Heiser argues that the Magog war is fulfilled in two stages of the “already but not yet” fulfillment scenario, this present treatment suggests a similar but novel solution.

The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 8 Runes110

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

So many of us hold back talking about things because we fear what others might think of us. Many times I believe dark forces toss these thoughts of keeping silent our direction for the purpose of steering us away from a revelation.

The LORD does not always use us to fulfill his will in the same manor. You may be given a gift to see and hear things that I don't have. I believe The LORD chooses certain people to move his message forward.

The Adversary will attempt to counter the message any way he can. One of his biggest counters is to inject fear in the mind as a tool for silence.

I believe there are a special elect who The LORD "knows" will stand firm with him. They will not be moved, no matter how hard they are pushed. During those dark days these elect will be given a voice to speak, not their voice, but every sound coming forth from them will be the gift.

There is coming a time when ones who are good will be viewed as evil, and those evil will be viewed as good. The eyes and ears of The World are darkened by a knowledge that looks so good, feels so good, taste so good, until the consumed fruit finally reaches the belly.

A bitter day is coming.

Through false doctrines that water down, cherry pick, and sugar coat, The Adversary becomes whatever one desires him to be.

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This text comes from an analysis of Adolf Hitler's strategies and use of the "Big Lie" to manipulate and control the masses, as prepared by the United States Office of Strategic Services.

"His Primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it."

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Sat Oct 15, 2022 8:23 am

So true. If we look around, this is going on right now isn't it. I had this very feeling this morning as to what is going on with my mind wandering so much. It feels as the evil one is trying to distract me and change me. I am strong in my faith though and these posts do help me stay focused. Thank you for them.
Everyone beware of the evil one's intent and stay strong - he will do anything to bring you down- he's desperate. Don't let him wiggle in to win.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:36 am

I had to go to 'color' to get things to show up.
These are just various thoughts...

Be willing to believe the Impossible (for man), for with God ALL THINGS are Possible. Wink

1 John1:
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Most all fearful experiences happen only in our imagining. And we can stop allowing that. Wink

The Bible even says, 'Don't do that!' And the reasons stretch much further than we normally perceive. Still we can 'behave' the Word, even without seeing the full implications of 'why',
And choose to think on all good things, (Philippians 4: Cool

and choose to magnify God in every situation.
We who have received the Word and the Spirit live Psalm 91.

The Bible is a progression from "In the Beginning" to the "End of the Age". Not only is God giving us His story, but also the STEPS for our own Revelation of The Christ and the Kingdom of God.

The Freedom in Christ that we have been given is the Escape from Judgement!
As we ask and repent, Forgiveness is Freely Given. God does not hold our sins against us.
Yes, we may suffer the 'natural' results of some thoughts and deeds, (often called karma) but God does not hold them against us. His Price has already been paid.

Now, if we are attentive to the Spirit, IF we hear His Voice or recognize His
Message, and not rely on our own understanding, He WILL lead us through everything that's coming.
As ScaRZ said, TAKE NO THOUGHT! Why? To get out of God's Way so He
can do the thing.

When we are conformed to His Image and Likeness, then He can be of effect
in the world through us, the Temple.

ALL life is Precious to Him, He made us all. But how much more are those who
are His Temple, His Redeemed, His access onto the fallen realm.

I call it a God Referral life. I want to live my life between me and God first,
SO THAT He might live in me. And yes this is Truth and happens, and is
impossible to mistake. No demonic spirit carries overwhelming Light, Love and Truth.
He is the Seal of our Redemption. He will not lose any that the Father has given Him.
Regrettably it takes the wine press, the threshing floor to wake some unsuspecting people up. I had my experiences with situations I knew
immediately were impossible for me, and that God was the Only Way.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Jesus Christ after his resurrection became the first fruits of many to follow by putting on a new body. If you remember he could appear and be seen, then not be seen. He also ate. At this point he was no longer a little lower than the angels.

At one time remember Jesus was a little lower than the angels. He had an earthly body that was not eternal just like all of us. Jesus while he was in his earthly body could not appear and disappear. When trouble appeared in front of him, he also had to move around it. He was a man with all the temptations of you and I. The only difference was that he never fell into rebellion and sin as all others have.

Hebrews 2:9......."But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

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Today is the only day. There was no yesterday, there will be no tomorrow.

This reminds me of a discussion I had with several people.

This question was ask by one of the people........"If the bus to the eternal heaven was parked outside your home and gave you five minutes to come aboard, would you choose to leave this world, or would you remain?"

One man answered......."I want to go to heaven, but just not right now."

I spoke up and said......."The question does not state the bus will ever return."

I viewed the question as today is the day. The bus was parked outside waiting for me today.

Would I go get on the bus, or would I look back?

Would I want to hang on to this world and the things of this world, or would I keep looking forward and get on the bus?

Today is the day.

A great example is Lots wife. She did not keep her eyes focused on what was ahead, but chose to turn and look back.

Another example is Jesus Christ speaking to not return to enter your house and attempt to take something with you. Don't look back, look ahead, move forward.

Just like in the latter days of Babylon the Great, how many people will answer the call of a voice from heaven?........."Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

How many will not come out of her, but choose to hang on to the mighty fleshly appetites that Babylon offers?

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Sat Oct 15, 2022 1:39 pm

These are my kind of conversations.

I have NO doubts God is bigger than we CAN think. He said so. Even with Spirit guidance, there are things we could not bear to hear, things that would break our
brains . And there comes such a 'detachment' from the world...that has to be gotten used to. (and here I am back in it now bigtime. but with purpose, I believe.)

So..just to clarify..when I talk about the "Light", we have all kinds of scriptural references from Jesus,
but maybe some confusion or doubt because Bible also says satan can appear as an angel of light.

He may be a liar, deceiver, imitator, but you'll still know, still recognize him.
He probably smells. haha!

We perceive the True Light in Knowingness.
We think we know compassion, and Peace, and Agape and brotherly love, and Patience.
But what we know is nothing compared to what God sheds abroad in our hearts and minds when He comes.

It is 'seeing' anew, in the Light of God, and not fallen ones or demons or satan himself can possess it. They CANNOT. It will not be given to them (in this dispensation, anyway).
Obviously if God had to abandon the earth because of sin, He could not take up residence in satan or his minions. There are Immutable Laws within this Covenant that we can count on.

An earthly parable is the Sun and the moon. The sun we take to be pure unadulterated light.
The moon has no light of it's own. It's light is only a temporary reflection.
This is our current understanding. Others can see further.
(I do see the matrix..and I do see the energy behind-within all that we perceive, but I won't go there now. )

There are people who worship what they take to be God as a course of what they were taught.
And they mean it, heartfully, and live by Godly principles. That does not make them demons, or demon possessed. (God said, Judge not, lest ye be judged.)
We 'judge' ourselves only, our thoughts and deeds, against the Word.

As we grow in our Godly (not worldly) Nature our understanding grows. That, in my experience, does not take away from the "Narrow Path", which is frightfully legitimate. What pulls us off the path is something entirely different. (It could be the lure of shiny things,
or of 'forbidden knowledge', or another temptation)

Yet, we cannot let fear of the unknown keep us from seeking relationship, fellowship with Father God. SINGLEMINDEDNESS OF PURPOSE is the best protection. Keep our eyes on Jesus. That's sufficient in all things. Rely on Him to lead you in ALL Righteousness all the time. He is not a trickster, or a man that He should lie.

Jesus said, I'm going, but I won't leave you comfortless. It is Good for you that I go to the Father, as we will send the Holy Spirit to be with you and help you. Bible says THE SAME HOLY SPIRIT WHO WAS WITH CHRIST JESUS on the earth will come-and (in this way) the Father and I will come to you and
live with and sup with you !!! Wow! Wow! Wow! times a million!
(There is a caveat. Whenever two or more of you are gathered in My Name, I AM there in the midst.
Probably why Jesus sent them out in two's) (and another reason, maybe later.)

THIS is the true step into our eternal lives. Know yourself as/in/with the Spirit and you'll know you will not die. And we get about learning how to live in and from the Kingdom. And assuredly, the ways of the world don't fit there. Jesus taught how to live by the Spirit/by the Kingdom. I'd love to get into that.

Why can we not find the antichrist? My simple guess is It's not yet God's time for us to know.

Historical evidence says you're looking in the right place though. Nimrod. And,
The Khazars (/ˈxɑːzɑːrz/) were a semi-nomadic Turkic people that in the late 6th-century CE established a major commercial empire covering the southeastern section of modern European Russia, southern Ukraine, Crimea, and Kazakhstan.
And what about the Silk Road? IDK anything about that but I suspect that's how the beast system spread.
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And We surely have gotten a thorough look at the beast system.
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God said 'I AM the same yesterday, today and forever." I have no doubts.
It is US who are moving, changing, growing in knowledge, awareness, wisdom and understanding, AND HOLINESS. He said He would change us.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Peter Goodgame wrote:

If we were to take a poll of your average American Christian and ask, What is the greatest enemy to the spread of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the world today? I am sure we would get a varied response. Some would say Radical Islam, others would say Socialism or Communism, and others might mention Liberals or The Illuminati. I believe that none of these threats match the power and wickedness of the great spiritual enemy of the Kingdom of Heaven that is described in Revelation 17-18, known as Mystery, Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth. The final words that describe her show how successful her career of deception will be,

for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. (Revelation 18:23-24)

In Matthew 24:14 Jesus predicted the triumph of the Gospel as a necessary pre-condition to His Second Coming, saying, And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

However, Jesus also predicted that when the good seed is sown the devil will come in and sow tares, or weeds, among the wheat. The deceptions of Babylon represent a parallel ideology, an ideology of covetousness, commerce and consumerism, completely given over to the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, which penetrates all nations alongside the spread of the true Gospel. The time is soon coming for a showdown and a separation between the two, because every time a Jezebel appears on the scene to seduce the people of God there is always an Elijah sent to combat her.

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ScaRZ wrote:: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. (Revelation 18:23-24)

In Matthew 24:14 Jesus predicted the triumph of the Gospel as a necessary pre-condition to His Second Coming, saying, And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

However, Jesus also predicted that when the good seed is sown the devil will come in and sow tares, or weeds, among the wheat. The deceptions of Babylon represent a parallel ideology, an ideology of covetousness, commerce and consumerism, completely given over to the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, which penetrates all nations alongside the spread of the true Gospel. The time is soon coming for a showdown and a separation between the two, because every time a Jezebel appears on the scene to seduce the people of God there is always an Elijah sent to combat her.

REV 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. 7 He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
The preaching at the end will not only be done by humans,

8 A second angel followed and said, “‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great,’[a] which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.”
Oh and look there, the very next angel gives Badylon the bad news!

Rev 18 4And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5For her sins [c]have reached to heaven,

So much going on here! But no matter what happens, we will not be alone!

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:58 am

Peter's cool. but I thought Jezebel was the reason Elijah quit, no? He just got too battle weary to
deal with her last threats of bringing everything she had against him.
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So, the song.."These are the Days of Elijah." I couldn't argue with that.

But today, when the Leader of the 'Free' World and the traditional bastion of the Gospel stands up b4
the country and the world, covers the wall hanging of Jesus on the Cross and announces 'we are
no longer a Christian nation', tells us the enemy felt secure that they had broken the bonds of
tradition. And they had. And we had let them. And now it's war, for those who are willing to fight.

The enemy holds position world wide. The war is world wide. We, the chosen generation?
We are the ones who lost it through blindness, complacency, and fear.

It's sad to think back to when Peter wrote that. "the enemy is Islam. Kill them."
Malarkey. The entire world has been manipulated to hate one another. And the enemy
grows stronger and stronger-fed spiritually through our fear and loathing, and physically
by stealing all the world's assets to enrich themselves and advance their role of dominance.

Do Palestinians think Judaism is the religion of peace? Do Iraqis think Christianity is the religion of
peace? Do Christians think Islam is the religion of peace?
The present rulers of this world serve satan, knowingly or not.

A house or a nation or a world divided cannot stand.
So that becomes the enemies weapon. Obama said people are too stupid to rule themselves.
Then he laid out the Global agenda to rule over all people.

What must we do? Love God and Love our neighbor as ourselves. We live in a global neighborhood.
Jesus saw this day. His Word still stands. Wink

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

David Lowe wrote:

Who Will Open the Scroll?

Revelation chapter 5 opens with a description of the throne and a seven-sealed scroll. Note where the seven-sealed book is located with respect to God:

Rev 5:1 Then I saw in the right hand of the one who was seated on the throne a scroll written on the front and back and sealed with seven seals.

After the scroll is described in God's right hand, the search began for someone to open the scroll:

Rev 5:2 And I saw a powerful angel proclaiming in a loud voice: "Who is worthy to open the scroll and to break its seals?"

Rev 5:3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or look into it.

This is a perplexing passage if viewed as occurring in the future. If Jesus Christ had already ascended to the throne and been in heaven for nearly 2,000 years, then why would he not be already seated on the right hand of God, ready to take the scroll? Why would the angel have to call throughout heaven and earth to find him, the only one worthy to open the scroll? Was Jesus playing a game of Hide and Seek?

According to scripture, when Jesus ascended to heaven, he sat down at the right hand of God, as Mark described in the verse above. In fact, as Stephen was being stoned to death, he said he actually saw Jesus at God's right hand:

Act 7:55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked intently toward heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.

Act 7:56 "Look!" he said. "I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!"

As discussed above, Jesus told Caiaphas the high priest that he would be sitting at the right hand of power in heaven. In addition, in several of their letters, both Paul and Peter proclaim that Jesus Christ is currently at the right hand of God, interceding for prayers:

Rom 8:34 Who is the one who will condemn? Christ is the one who died (and more than that, he was raised), who is at the right hand of God, and who also is interceding for us.

Col 3:1 Therefore, if you have been raised with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

I Pet 3:22 who went into heaven and is at the right hand of God with angels and authorities and powers subject to him.

Therefore, according to these verses, Jesus should be at God's right hand to open the seven-sealed scroll. But he is not there in Revelation chapter 5. The call for someone to open the sealed scroll becomes even more perplexing when one considers the following passage from Hebrews:

Heb 10:12 But when this priest had offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, he sat down at the right hand of God,

Heb 10:13 where he is now waiting until his enemies are made a footstool for his feet.

This is a key point. Not only did Christ sit down at the right hand of God after his death, resurrection, and ascension, but he must remain there until his enemies are made a footstool for his feet. Now consider Revelation chapter 5 in this light. If what is described in this chapter takes place in the future, then where is Jesus, and why isn't he seated at God's right hand? Why is there a call throughout the universe for him? Where is Jesus hiding?

The clear answer is that the scene at the opening of Revelation chapter 5 does not take place in the future. In the vision that John was being shown, Jesus had not yet arrived at the throne from earth. Rather than a description of the throne room scene after the future resurrection, transformation, and catching-up event, this is a vision of the scene at God's throne just after the ascension of Jesus Christ and just before he took his seat at the right hand of God.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:40 am

I don't agree with his conclusions.

The next verse Rev 5:5 is Jesus as the Lamb, worthy to open the seals.

The point Lowe seems to have stumbled over is NO MAN WAS FOUND WORTHY.
Jesus was "OF GOD AND GOD". come to earth as a man.
The WORTHY ONE presented as the LAMB, which represents the ONE WHO IS WORTHY.

It sounds as though when John looked, he expected to see Jesus as he knew him.
and didn't see THE LAMB-the ONE worthy to open the scrolls.

The Throne of God is most unusual to human understanding. Wink

Think of the Seraphim.
They are representations visually of another aspect of God, "translated", if you will, into a representation of their Nature, for our understanding.

AND, this may be the best explanation of how it is that Jesus is in Heaven, yet people have experiences of Him appearing to them. It is the Holy Spirit of God, sent to the earth as was Jesus, giving us a visual representation of who He is, in a form we recognize.

(That's how it happened to me. Jesus did not come down again
bodily from heaven. The Holy Spirit was sent to earth BY JESUS and the Father to be with us. But He showed me His earthly form before me, so I would know..and I expect so I would not be afraid)

I did not know much scripture then, despite being raised in church.
The fact that my life radically changed in an instant was plenty of confirming evidence,
yet I searched the scriptures to find it..to validate it. One indisputable verse is in the next post.
--
Understand that 'my' status of Holiness was not IT. God does the cleaning and preparation of the vessel. Nor did I have the slightest
pre-conceived notion that such a thing might happen.
All I did was seek Him in the manner the Bible describes.

And I'm not thrilled to mention it. lol. However, why should He come
if it's to no effect. He wants to be found!

So that very next verse:
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
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There was something else Lowe said that was off..but basically he started with the wrong conclusion, so everything else is off.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:38 am

One of many verses describing Jesus with us now, but this is the most literal, perhaps. Not in a parable.

JOHN 14

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Dove.....I don't think you understood fully Lowe's written lay out. You have misunderstood it. Jesus Christ was not seen seated is the whole point, until he arrived in verse 5:5. Then and only then is when The Lamb takes the scroll, and can begin opening the seven seals of the scroll.

Why would the strong angel in 5:2 be ask with a loud voice........"Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof".........If Jesus was already there in heaven. John was taken back in time and saw when Jesus arrived in heaven. That is what Lowe is attempting to get across.

Then in the next chapter (Rev 6) Jesus Christ begins breaking the seals. I will say most think the breaking of all seven seals will be still a future event. The seals could have started being broken much sooner than most believe......"This is the reason for his total lay out."

This also is why I have posted several times that I believe all but seal 6 and 7 have already been broken.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:23 pm

Okay. I'm willing to try again. Check me on this much before I go on.
And now I think I see where you're going with this info.
You said as much. Wink

Is it enough proof? We can hold it up against a few other things.
Peter said, even now we know it is the endtimes.
Paul had to deal with people thinking they had missed the Rapture.
Many have thought the 4 horses 'ride' throughout since the Cross.
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Why would the strong angel in 5:2 ask with a loud voice........
"Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof".

5:4 John lamented
5:5 The Lamb is announced as the One, and is seen..
5:6 in the midst of the Throne and the 4 beasts.

In Revelation 1:19
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 20 the mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
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So Lowe says John observed the Throne Room as it was prior to the Ascension, and then witnessed the arrival of Jesus.

Who, upon His arrival, took and opened the scrolls, meaning 2000 years ago (about).

Am I on track now? Of course they had to have been opened about 2000 years ago for John to be able to record them.

And the question becomes...?
Was that the beginning of the end?
And what does that mean for now?
Does anything tell us they are all for a date in the future?
Did I grasp the point this time?
And thank you for your patience with me. Wink

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Dove wrote:: And the question becomes...?
Was that the beginning of the end?
And what does that mean for now?
Does anything tell us they are all for a date in the future?
Did I grasp the point this time?
And thank you for your patience with me.

Yes Dove! I believe you now are seeing it......."You are very welcome and thank you for having interest enough to ask.

I would say the vast majority of believers view all 7 of the seals are still to be broken and are "A future prophecy to be fulfilled." At one time I also thought that same way....."But not for a good 10+ years, after much study."

Was that the beginning of the end?........As I've posted in the past......I believe at Jesus Christ ascension into heaven he was the only one to be worthy to take the scroll of 7 seals and be seated at The Throne of God. Nothing else, it doesn't matter who or what they were in the heavens, on the earth, or under the earth was able to even look, open and read the scroll until Jesus had ascended into heaven.

Jesus was worthy because he fulfilled "The Will of The Father". Jesus lived his full earthly life without sin, he lay down his on life on the cross for all our sins, was buried, rose from the dead, and ascended into heaven.

Verse 5 of Revelation 5 is when someone became worthy, and think about this......"John got to go back in time and see it." Jesus Christ was the worthy one.

I believe when Jesus Christ took the scroll, took his seat, he began breaking the seals. Once the first seal was broken......"This was the beginning of The End of Days, The End Times".....This event had it's starting point over 2,000 years ago I believe. We are not awaiting The End of Days, The End Times to begin......"We are living in The End Times."

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:02 pm

"We are living in The End Times."
Yes, we surely are.
One key I've heard mentioned was -when we see all these
things happening at the same time-

For me, we did so much work ahead of time over these past
years, and there is so much happening on the ground as we
walk through this (for as long as we're here). All I know is I didn't really cement myself in the trib timeline because it always seemed to be a bit 'off' to me.
And there was the 'unknown' factor-Q.

And for as slow as it sometimes seems, there is quite the
compression and overlap of all prophesied events. It isn't all a linear unfolding (for instance-where to plug in Ezekiel, etc)
until we can look back, probably, and say 'oh that was it'.

Now that we've seen how little of the devil's plan we actually
could identify, (infiltration by foreign gov'ts, a hidden gov't and military) when we look for the antichrist, the answer probably also lies in unknown factors of blood lines.
(real, legitimate dna info). God knows, and Q knows.
How far back in history we'd have to go to identify the country or region? Complicated.
Even moreso because the history we're taught is false!

As I was reading yesterday, I came across this website:
https://www.eternalgod.org/update/

The last article on this page is:

What do we know of the Stone of Destiny? (Part 2)

and who lays claim to real Israel. Again...fascinating, but complicated question from the 'human' perspective. We know it's God's Land.
--
And another topic I saw some of is 'who/what are the 7 spirits?"
People have many answers for that.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Michael Heiser wrote:

"Chaos is present but restrained; there will eventually be no more sea and chaos will be eliminated. We tend to think (wrongly) that the Edenic dwelling place of God = the whole world. "It didn't." It was the only place without creation chaos as the place where God was / dwelled. A small piece of the globe according to the biblical narrative. All the earth was not Eden."

I have brought this up before in the threads. Adam was formed outside of The Garden of Eden and then was placed inside The Garden of Eden. Once Adam rebelled he was forced outside of Eden and entered The World.

Genesis 2:8........"The LORD God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed."

Now a question that I think about often.

What was going on outside of Eden on earth while Adam (The Man) was inside The Garden of Eden, before his rebellion?

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:50 am

Thanks for checking on me Scarz. I had just sat down to write. I am better, but it is so very damn slow getting that way. I am going to try to slowly work myself back into some form a human being but I don't know if I will be able to, or if I have the 'want to" to actually do that. My lungs have improved greatly and my ribs are still bothering me butt not like they were. The coughing has all but stopped the last handful of days and I am sleeping better than I have in a good while. I just feel better all around, but I just can't go outside without coughing and getting fatigued. As long as I stay inside, I'm pretty well okay, so I guess the simple answer is "just stay inside,stupid!"

I am truly enthralled by what is happening in the Eastern Europe theater as it (if it)aligns with the Bible. Why are certain things taking place that seem to make no sense at all? Why is the US throwing all of this money at a war that makes no sense and a war where a workable peace should be achievable pretty easily,seems to me? I suspect its because the US has many secrets in the Ukraine ranging from human trafficking to money laundering, as well as illegal bio-labs that have already been exposed.

I am convinced that a false flag,Ezekiel 38 banner will be placed on this war, with the media shifting the lies in a way to cause biblically illiterate people to follow a WWIII narrative that has been laid down for decades. I could be off base here

Who blew the pipeline? And why? My first impression would be the CIA/MOSSAD in order to take out Russia oil/gas proceeds so the US could sell replacement oil/gas. BUT, that is so very damn obvious and blatantly stupid that I just don't think that is the case. I know these reprobate bastards that make up this administration are tools of Satan but some of this stuff that they are doing is just off the chart stupid. The devil ain't stupid. I know God is controlling all of this and its above my paygrade but damn it just boggles my mind how haphazardly this whole thing is going down.

A smart guy on TD posted some financial possibilities about what could happen of the Saudis joined the BRICS alignment,the China/Russia/Iran group to create their own currency. The biggest thing would be the collapse of the petro-dollar, making the dollar virtually worthless. This imbecile-in-chief that the US has, is either the dumbest sunuva'bitch that has ever walked in the white house, or he is doing this intentionally. I think that its both. Look at his eyes,folks! Those are dead eyes. At times, they appear to be black and lifeless. I know there is little brain activity behind them to to brighten them up, but those eyes are not normal.

There is something going on that is diabolical in nature, but I just don't see this as being part of Ezekiel 38-39, or at least not yet. Lord willing, I'm going to post some interesting stuff later on, provided that I still continue to improve.

If I did actually have covid, I sure as hell am glad that I didn't have the original China-flu virus. I don't know if I could have lived through that as bad as this "omicron" strain was. I honestly don't think that I actually had it, contrary to my wife and Renleys mama's diagnosis( she had it twice, though , and she said from day 1 that I had it. I told her that she was full of shit,as always but its possible that the blind squirrel found an acorn this time) but I had/have something beside just bronchitis. Folks, I have been sick all summer and fall with something. At least there was no melanoma like it looked like at first, but there are a couple more skin cancers showing up now. I guess we are at the age where all of our years catch up with us, you know the "three score and ten" verse well. So do I because I am almost there. I do feel better this morning than I have felt in months so I am not going to waste the day. Some real interesting stuff in the morning, Lord willing.......mike

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

michael371 wrote:: My lungs have improved greatly and my ribs are still bothering me butt not like they were.

You could have some cracked ribs Michael from coughing so much.

Good to hear you are feeling some better.

The Russian/Ukraine war makes me wonder who it really is that's stirring the pot. Of coarse on this side of the bridge Putin gets all the blame. But who gets all the blame on the other side of the bridge?.......USA and NATO. I feel for the average person of both Ukraine as well as Russia.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:48 am

You know I would put together the 'recovery' protocol for you to look at Mike, if you'd like me to. I listened, read, gathered and saved.
It does sound like covid. There aren't many other options-pneumonia is possible. Or both at once, as my husband had earlier this year. On top of his COPD and heart/vascular issues. He was in hospital and thought he was a gonner. but today he's golfing 18 holes, though that will do him in for the day. He's winning though, in the league he's always played with. Wink

He's 75.

I just ordered a citrulline supplement this morning. Both the pub med articles and personal testimonies say it makes a real difference in helping restore strength at the cellular level.
----
And there are so many treatments for melanoma that take 2 simple products from the grocery store.
3 if you want to go all in. Wink

I don't like giving in, or turning myself over to Dr's >IF< I can help it, just on general (stubborn) principles.
Pages of what people have used and how it worked for them, some with pictures.
If you feel you have a little time here to give some things a chance ...

----
There ARE a few things mentioned in this one source I would NOT DO,
but most are safe and show results in 4 days to a couple weeks.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:31 pm

Dove ,I think it would be very interesting to know what you have learned about and have always believed that the Lord would not put His children , being us, here amongst natural ills without a fix being available. Medicinal herbs etc..
I realized in the 6th grade that history has usually been slanted to favor those in power - and how facts are changed ( reworded ) to influence minds at an early age. I have a copy of the A Pike book ( mason) and have yet to look at it much- Time is fleeting so I must do this. (It belonged to my uncle who was a deacon in the church when I was a child) I think the evil one has members in power everywhere and is just waiting for the right time to make his move. It's really ramping up and I agree about those "foreign" wars not being what they seem. I certainly don't trust the media here.
Oh yes, I'm so glad Mike is doing better - we sure need him . ( and all of you too ) !!
God bless and watch over ya'll.

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

I fully understand there are people who need their prescription medications to stay alive. But I certainly believe all of us know for a fact that a lot of Doctors are nothing more than pill pushers. If you don't watch very closely they will have you taking a pill for everything. Every prescription drug has side effects and many serious side effects. I've viewed this happening time and time again.

The person begins taking a drug and it does some good in one area, but soon they will need another drug to counter a new problem. Before long the person is taking a hand full of drugs and more problems keep popping up. One lady I knew for several years would go to Doctors all the time. Not just to one or two but "Many" Doctors who all in very little time had her popping so many prescription drugs, that it wasn't a hand full it was two hands full. She was dead within only a very short period of time.

The USA is a pill popping country and most are legal drugs. Mix that in with all the illegal crap and what a mess we have. Prescription drug companies are filling their pockets with huge money. In my opinion it's nothing but a racket.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Thu Oct 20, 2022 9:02 am

Oh boy, I was going to post some other stuff about Ezekiel 38 but I think thatI'll jump right into this pool instead. I agree with the consensus up to a point. Both my wife and I take a lot of medicine but we cut it out if we can get by without it but some we have to have. BP meds and my wifes thyroid meds are "have to haves" and you might have to classify my Repatha as such since my blood will turn to mud without it. We could probably get by without the other pills but they sure make our lives easier.

Now, I knew a woman that doctors almost killed with medicine. I am serious, she took so much medicine that conflicted with each other that she was almost blind and in a wheelchair. Her daughter finally took her to UAB and that doctor took her pills and went through them and tossed almost all of it in the trash. The next time I saw Miss Emma, she was walking around her driveway for exercise. Steroids killed my mother,indirectly, due to damaging her immune system. She had a doctor that would prescribe them for her because she begged for them. She had severe arthritis and they sure helped her..........for a while.........I am taking the same drug now because I did just like her, I begged for them.

Sometimes, a person has to make a choice, quantity or quality. In my case, I chose quality. I have been through a lot in the last 15 years. I understand many, many people have gone through worse situations and came through them much better than I have. I am surprised that I came through mine at all. I expected and shot for a three year goal of survival with the first cancer. I took the "cure" and the "cure" is behind most of my maladies of today. I am not complaining. My medicine was prayer and I do think that was the medicine that cured the cancer. I still planned on dying,though. The radiation and chemo are responsible for everything going on with me now( minus this lung crap or covid or whatever it was).

I have absolutely zero faith in this herbal stuff, although there are exceptions that do work such as cranberry extract for the kidneys and others. To be honest, both prescription and herbal medicines originated from the Watchers. Had mankind obeyed God, there would have never been a need for any medicine. Unfortunately, he didn't listen. Now, both industries are driven by money,greed and power,as we have just seen with this covid crap. I will say this, both the wife and I took the horsepaste/hydroxychloriquine/vitamin combo and did not get covid even after being around people who had it. Did it work? I think so because we didn't get it. The reality is that I don't trust either herbal or prescription drugs unless I KNOW the drug works with no side effects. The problem is that there are side effects with ALL drugs. I have not noticed anything with Repatha but you can bet there are some,even if very slight ones.

Doctors, oh my. Legal drug dealers. The majority of them push drugs without regard of the dangers that they can cause. We have a good doctor but he is only slightly better than average in that regard. They are compensated for prescribing certain drugs and that is a fact that is verified by out daughter in law. She once worked for a doctor that got free Carribbean vacations every year,paid for by Big Pharma.

Yep, its a double-edged sword type situation, a "damned if we do and damned if we don't" trap. There are both good and bad results that come from medicine. Again, take my situation with pain killers. I take pain killers every single day. I may even be addicted to them,even though they are very mild. I don't care if I am addicted because they allow me to function. Combined with a couple of Gaberpentins I can move around and piddle around with a garden that I would not otherwise be able to do. I have neuropathy in my legs as well as lupus originated arthritis. I can walk without the drugs but I'd rather not.

I generally agree about the evils of Big Pharma and the opinions expressed here but a honest and caring doctor can use the drugs to help his patients, and not just for a free vacation. Unfortunately, most opt for the vacation and push like they are the centerpiece of the Steppenwolf song. I would rather not take drugs at all, but I want to walk around, I want to not have a stroke or heart attack and now, I kinda' need to breathe. I do agree that the drug industry is about 80% a racket and criminal inspired, but I do see the good from the other 20% that is sincere and trying to help sick folks. The one rule to remember concerning Big Pharm is this" they are not in business to help the sick, they are in business to make money".

Look, two weeks ago I thought I might be dying. I was that bad. Right now, as soon as these ribs finally heal up, I think I may be getting back to playing shape. I doubt that I'll be able to do much from a work standpoint but I should be able to piddle. My lungs are clear. Why? A drug called Trelegy that cost $714 for a 30 day supply that worked in 3 days. Its inhaled directly into the lungs and it had some side effects bit whats the side effect of not being able to breathe? Drugs have helped me and drugs have hurt me, kinda' like women,huh? I guess that I am against the drug industry, mostly, but not entirely and I agree with what ya'll are saying. Hey, I've rambled around and said basically nothing but it sure is fun to be back.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Thu Oct 20, 2022 10:09 am

You summed it up perfectly for all of us, I expect, Michael.

And I tend to agree with what you said on vitamins, as well. But they do make a huge difference for
me. I do 1 or 2 a day, but will select treat if I need it, or remember to. ha!

I prefer to get organic herbals though, and fresh organic food smoothies.
---
Without the Veterans Admin. all those respiratory drugs are insanely priced. And your doc went right to the most expensive one. grrr.
---
From our experiences in this house, there is a mist inhaler called Stiolto Respimat that is patented
so no generic, but still is about 370.00 in pharmacy, as opposed to Trelegy.
I think it's MUCH better than trelegy.
(We have a basket full...tried em all)

Alan was on it, then switched to Trelegy, but coughed alot-junky lungs. Switched back and is much better.

Up here, if U got to doc for most anything, you get a steroids script with it. LOL.

I'll send the treatments to you anyway. They are vegetable and apple cider vinegar. LOL
OR peroxide-35%-that WILL BURN and you have to get it all, so I like doctor for that.
U have a cancer history-and if anything, that's where we'd need to go to make changes.
Not on the skin surface.
But with that history-if more melanomas are showing up-I agree getting them removed quick is the way to go.

Working from the inside out, number 1 is vita C. ascorbic acid-nothing fancy. 2000 mg to start.
Work up to 5000 mg if you can without getting the 'runs'.
You'd think your home grown diet would be perfect...but...I'll dig around, probably post in natural
health, and put the link here when it's ready.
They always say alkaline diet is the way.

Apple pectin (in the peels) (sold as pill also) and chaga mushroom I have powder. (for radiation.I bought when I first heard 'nuclear' in the news)

We want you around for all this fun stuff! The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 8 1f603

The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 8 1f603

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

michael371 wrote:: I do agree that the drug industry is about 80% a racket and criminal inspired, but I do see the good from the other 20% that is sincere and trying to help sick folks. The one rule to remember concerning Big Pharm is this" they are not in business to help the sick, they are in business to make money".

I agree Michael, I'm most certainly not attempting to tell other people what to do or not to do. I don't know anyone......"including myself that would opt to be in severe pain." Of coarse all people as age of time continues will come to a point of needing to accept the effects of the ticking clock. Boy Oh Boy!!! wouldn't we all love to look and feel 18 again.

There are some very good Doctors that are not pill pushers. Some will not recommend starting someone on a prescription drug until it is truly necessary.

Lets just talk about an aspirin a day.

I know I pissed off my Dad's Doctor when I told him that my Dad had never had any problems with his heart, no strokes or blood clots, and I didn't think he needed to be taking an aspirin every day. My Dad had always had problems with nose bleeds from a very young age. Why would he need to thin his blood?

Dad continued to take the aspirin every day as his Doctor suggested. One Sunday morning we had to rush him to the Hospital with internal bleeding that turned out to come from the very top part of the stomach. They thought it was a bleeding ulcer, but it wasn't. The main Doctor in the Hospital of coarse took him off the aspirin every day. Dad never had any problems with any internal bleeding again.

Dad's main Doctor never said a word about the aspirin again.

The problem is that a lot of people are prescribed Med's they do not need in the first place. The Doctor also got Dad on a blood pressure Med and it wasn't long I noticed he was weak and pale......"Even took a fall in his kitchen." His pressure was way too low. I took Dad's blood pressure and never saw the need of it in the first place. I talked to the Doctor about it and first he just wanted to lower the Med. I told him I thought it was best for Dad to stop taking it completely. The Doctor said okay and Dad never took it again. I took Dad's blood pressure ever day and wrote it down. When returning to the Doctor for a few years I would take it with us and show the results to him.

To cut this short, his blood pressure was very good to good and after a couple years of showing the Doctor the written results he said it was no use continuing to show him.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:24 pm

Oh I agree on some medicines being a necessity. I'm on bp medicine myself. I was referring to some natural remedies that can cautiously be used to save lives. A person must know what they're doing with them though because some, like Foxglove are poisonous if used incorrectly - but can save a life in proper usage. Somewhere out there is a cure for cancer if not already covered up by those in power.

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

The Adversary (Satan) knows that he must paint a picture of God The Father as the bad guy to humans. The god of this world wants us to believe (And many do) that he is the true gift giver (Giver of Knowledge). He is the light bearer, the giver of light, the giver of the forbidden knowledge. He rebelled against the evil god who was holding back knowledge from all. He has been painting this picture a very long time. The Adversary (Satan) and his forces are going to have to sell to the kings, nations, and people of the earth that an evil force is coming. There is no doubting in my mind that God The Father will allow Satan to do this to fulfill his will (The Will of God). God is going to have them come into one place for a swift judgment.

Peter Goodgame wrote:

The basic teaching of Gnosticism is that all matter is inherently evil, which is symbolized by Darkness. The purpose of life is therefore to transcend this Darkness by reaching towards the Light, which can be achieved through knowledge, or gnosis, of Man's true predicament. The Gnostics believed that the true and ultimate God is the God of Light, who is purely spiritual, and has no relationship either as a Creator of, or as a Ruler over, material reality. To the Gnostics the god of material reality was the God of Israel. He was accepted as the Creator and Ruler of the material universe, but he was denigrated as inferior to the God of Light and viewed as the ultimate personification of evil.

Gnostic texts explain that Ialdabaoth and the Archons created Adam and placed him in the Garden of Eden with an intent to deceive him. After learning of this situation the feminine aspect of the "God of Light," known as Sophia-Prunikos, acted to disrupt the schemes of the demiurge by sending an emissary of the Light to bring knowledge to Adam, allowing him to break free from his bondage. This divine emissary, according to the Gnostics, was none other than the Serpent of the Garden of Eden, and subsequent Gnostic sects reflected this veneration of the serpent by referring to themselves as Ophites (from the Greek word for serpent, ophis), and as Naassenes (from the Hebrew word for serpent, nachash).

The Gnostics took the idea that the Serpent was the true savior of mankind right up to the life of Jesus of Nazareth, as the following text shows,

"This general Serpent is also the wise Word of Eve. This is the mystery of Eden: this is the river that flows out of Eden. This is also the mark that was set on Cain, whose sacrifice the god of this world did not accept whereas he accepted the bloody sacrifice of Abel: for the lord of this world delights in blood. This Serpent is he who appeared in the latter days in human form at the time of Herod."

According to the New Testament, the sacrifice of Jesus did represent the triumph of the Kingdom of God over the "lord of this world," but this "lord" is clearly identified as Satan in several passages (Matthew 4:8-10, Luke 4:6-13, John 12:31, John 14:30, 2 Corinthians 4:4, etc). The Gnostics turned this belief around and argued that the "lord of this world" was actually the Creator-God of Israel, and that the life and teachings of Jesus represented a manifestation of the Serpent against this "God of Darkness."

Marcion, a hugely influential second century Gnostic based in Rome, also articulated a strong hatred of the Old Testament and of the Jews. Jonas writes that Marcion taught that upon His death "Christ descended into hell solely to redeem Cain and Korah, Dathan and Abiram, Esau, and all nations which did not acknowledge the God of the Jews, while Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, and so on, because they served the creator and his law and ignored the true God, were left down below". This glorification of the enemies of the God of the Old Testament as heroes of the "God of Light" also included Nimrod, and the positive characterization of Nimrod became part of the founding mythology of the Freemasons.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:27 am

Excuse for interrupting, but everybody's ready, right? Done all you can think of for the storm?
Days for final prep are 'numbered'. It has to be basically from now on from all the information.
Nov. is full of windows/dates. And some in these coming last days of October.
That to me suggests several 'events'..
Signed, Your dutiful watcher on the wall. The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 8 1f64f

The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 8 1f64f

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:41 pm

Good posts Scarz. Thank you .
Dove , Thank you also for the watching. I'm trying very much to stay on course. The evil one is definitely getting desperate. Attacks are definitely picking up and attempting to sway me. I've had trouble holding my tongue and say things I shouldn't say under my breath (in anger). It's been especially intense the past 2 weeks . Staying focused though and doing better after reading over this thread. Smile

I read over it as often as I can.
On the other front, I have dried "stuff" , protection and am aware . .
I do appreciate all of you and want to say that each of ya'll are like a dear beloved family member to me and will always have a place at my table. God bless ya'll every one.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:42 am

Every so often, I have these little thoughts that pop into cerebral wasteland where something jumps out at me that ties biblical passages with real life. Its usually stuff that is common knowledge and thrown around by bible teachers and preachers,stuff that we consider to be fact. Suddenly, it jumps from scripture to real life. Something that I knew but just kinda' glossed over because "everybody knows that" is Revelation 6:15-17.......

¹⁵Then the kings of the earth and the eminent people, and the commanders and the wealthy and the strong, and every slave and free person hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; ¹⁶and they *said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the ^{[[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 6%3a15-17&version=NASB#fen-NASB-30798a]a[/url]]}sight of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; ¹⁷for the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

I came across something the other day that we all know is there, but its not talked about. It involves what is called "continuity of government". They have built these facilities under the ground to be used as command centers and places of refuge in case of a nuclear or natural disaster. We have the D.U.M.B system (deep underground military bases) and the continuity of government system. There is a direct connection to these systems and the bible passage. This just kinda' jumped off of the screen at me and hit me upside the head with the real understanding that the scripture and the real life have meshed up. The elites have a place for themselves and their families, built with government funds. What about the unwashed masses? LOL, thats funny,real funny. According to some of the articles that I read, some of these underground facilities are built in the form of cities with all of abilities to carry on and be a functional operation. Here are some examples:

https://www.operationmilitarykids.org/deep-underground-military-bases-in-the-us/

There is a need for secrecy so I know that most all of the newer bases are not mentioned to the public but they are there and you know that they are worldwide. I do think something is coming real soon that will cause the Revelation 6:15-17 to come to pass. This part of prophecy is set up lock,stock and barrel.

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Yes Michael, this prophecy and it's fulfillment as it reads is when The Wrath of God is about to be poured out. Nobody, no matter how rich or poor will be able to hide deep enough from God.

Have you ever thought that all the underground fortresses/cities will still need a workforce? The elites, rich, famous most certainly do not like to do physical work. They just like telling or demanding everyone else what to do. That's why they will always need the lower level class of humans as a slave force. All we need to do is look back in history and it always tells the truth not only of the past, but shines a bright light into "The Now as well as the Future".

"and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains,"

Posts : 77 Reputation : 14 Join date : 2020-04-25

michael371 wrote:: I came across something the other day that we all know is there, but its not talked about. It involves what is called "continuity of government". They have built these facilities under the ground to be used as command centers and places of refuge in case of a nuclear or natural disaster. We have the D.U.M.B system (deep underground military bases) and the continuity of government system. There is a direct connection to these systems and the bible passage. This just kinda' jumped off of the screen at me and hit me upside the head with the real understanding that the scripture and the real life have meshed up. The elites have a place for themselves and their families,

Michael, I see a similar thing when I read Isaiah 28! I know there's probably historical context here but it seems to mirror today.

14 Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
( All their prep will fail...but they are preparing to out last God ...lol)

21 For the Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

I believe scripture teaches us that many will be kings and priest and help to rule over this earth for a time called The Millennium. What exactly their abilities will be it doesn't say. I believe they will instruct those who remain in their flesh bodies the ways of The Lord.

The Apostles through Jesus Christ had the ability to cast out demons, heal the sick, and other miracles. Only in the name of Jesus Christ will the devils run.

I think most of us attempt to place the spiritual realm inside a box just as "Religions" do with God. Once we reach our eternal state it's really a rebirth and what The LORD has in store for all creation we can only guess.

The faith to move mountains is something that has been done, is being done, and will be done by mankind. We can through faith cut through a mountain and build roads that stretch across this earth. We can cut a mountain down to nothing, moving it by trucks if we have the faith that we can. We can stand on one side of a river and through faith build a bridge to reach the other side.

Can you imagine what people thought when someone for the first time said we are going to construct a pathway from this side of the river to the other. I wonder how many people said out loud......."That's impossible, it can't be done." Without faith in it being a reality the works needed to do the job would never have a beginning. I guess the scripture from James fits nicely here also......."For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." (James 2:26)

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Do any of us really think for one second that The Adversary and his forces never use people to enter the millions of church buildings to deceive?

Do any of us believe that church buildings are somehow off limits?

I don't place my name on any book of denomination. I'm a follower and believer in Jesus Christ and put my trust and faith in him. I believe The Church is the body of Jesus Christ, not a building. People call buildings churches but all they are are places built to meet at. The people within the structures that are the members of The Body of Jesus Christ are The Church.

I believe people meeting to worship, teach and preach The Word of God is a great thing and it doesn't matter where you meet to accomplish it. Whether it's in a building called a church or any building, or no building at all. The main thing is the gathering of the members of the Body + those that are added to the Body. I believe also that meeting right here on this forum to discuss scripture can be a great thing. I view studying as most important to keep people from drifting away. There is little doubt in my mind that the flesh will rule if we let it.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:18 pm

Knock knock. Excuse me for not looking it up. My head is already over stuffed.

Is it Ezekiel that transpires over PITCH? AND PITCH IS OIL, WE KNOW.

Did we assume Russia would be moving militarily, and not via oil / currency?

Can you go anywhere with this? And this still preserves 'Israel for last', with the huge offshore deposits we were told they found some years ago.

Do the BRICS ALLIANCE countries fit into the geo territories named in the verses?

And how does this destroy the U.S. as we've known it?

A quick vid, a 2 min answer, cuz I never know if you all look at the things I post, or miss some. Wink

https://twitter.com/digitalassetbuy/status/1584922349211713538

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

Dove wrote:: Can you go anywhere with this?

This is something Michael may have some information about. I have not studied this enough to have any depth of details.

As the USA is beginning a move away from oil how will it tie together?

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

This below was written by a friend (Doug).

We who believe the Bible only know a fraction of God's activities and mostly what pertains to this earth. Outside of that, we can know little.

Our understanding of time and as it relates to measured period of existence is based on a flawed assumption. When we really think about it, we know better.

We know that there is no time in Heaven. Is there a state of existence? Or is it a constant state of now, eternally? We have no idea.

Theoretically, we think of the angelic fall as either just before creation, or else eons ago, beyond our comprehension.

Realistically, it is even possible that it hasn't happened yet. I only say this as other dimensions and time are ruled by entirely different laws.

Our contacts with angelic beings and God Himself are the only threads by which we can come to some measure of time as to when they entered and acted in this world.

It is said "that a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day" to God.

He, His angelic host and all in that realm are outside of our time, which could mean anything.

Our problem is that we just don't understand and yet we try to postulate and speculate what is going on just to keep our brains from frying and refrying.

We try to understand solidarity and all we know are whirling atoms. Self propelled Atomic engines that prevent us from falling into and dissolving into nothingness.

It's the same as trying to measure the age of the universe, the distances and all. Yes, we have pretty good instruments and some of which have correlated well to theorist's mathematical ideas.

But these ideas are in a continual state of updating and revision.

Yet, we are rather dumb compared to what we think we know about everything.

And we make up our whole universality of celestial knowledge and time based only on one tiny point of reference.

This physical world, it's moon and some measurement of a few nearby worlds in this system as parameters for the whole cosmological immensity and redundancy.

It would be like picking up a picture postcard as our only reference point, without ever seeing anything like that before and making a judgement as to what New York City was all about and how big it was.

Or being able to only add two and two and yet figuring we know how to square a hypotenuse.

If time goes on and things continue as they are,(good luck with that ) in a couple hundred years they will think our vaunted pronouncements as quaint.

Similar to what we think of eleventh century ideas.

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

To us humans we will never be without questions. With questions come more questions.

Will we ever get to a point where the road goes no further for us as far as in learning?........."I'm not talking about our earthly (Fleshly, Clay) existence." I'm talking about an eternal existence within the spiritual realm.

Will the souls that we are ever come to a point of "That's it"......I gain nothing beyond this point?

I'm a firm believer in as long as the soul that we are exist there will never be an end of the road.

Something I think most of us here at this forum have in common is we understand that many theological dogmas are not actually found in The Bible as many believe. But were culturally formed.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Fri Oct 28, 2022 6:34 am

Interesting that you should mention that subject. I have thought about the life existence, what most wrongly call "soul," and how its tied to the flesh. I don't mean like the New Agers say with all of their BS,but just how does the "soul'" and the flesh co-exist as one working unit. Before a person is saved by Gods grace, its a whole easier but after salvation, it is a war, as you all know,lol.

Its way above my paygrade to even try to type this out, but how does this human body hold the life force and how does the life force cause this body to perform actions, yet when death occurs, the life force leaves the body and goes to a place of higher existence? You can say that death causes the release from the body but why? The physical death of the body is easy to explain but the release of the soul is not. You can look at it as a 'cause and effect" type thing where the release is caused by the bodily death, but why doesn't the life force die also? This seems simple or foolish until you really think about it in some depth. What holds the life to the body before the body dies?

Evidently I have too much time on my hands because I spend a lot of it thinking about stuff that I can't understand in the first place. The miracle of life is one of those things. How and why all life begins with a certain sequence of prime numbers called the Fibonacci Sequence. Sounds absurd until you look into it. All life forms in the same pattern as a wave on the ocean, a rolling semi-circle shaped origin. Watch a seed sprout, watch a baby form after fertilization. I spent so time on this a few years ago, and I was fascinated by it,although I didn't understand a lot of it. It was just another case of Mike not fully understanding all I knew about the subject. I do believe the life that God provided is centered in the nucleus of cells of the brain. We know the reproductive traits are centered in nucleus of the cells of the body, but brain cells are different and not fully understood. Cells of the body regenerate, brain cells do not, although certain brain cells can assume the duties of injured cells after a while. So, I guess the release of life comes once the brain dies because once the brain fully expires, it can't be revived but the body can be put on life support and kept for a while.

I figure that these things are best left to God to deal with because it makes me feel so overwhelmed to think about them. Maybe thats why I do, and thats a good thing.

Now, I need to catch up on the havoc the Elon Musk has brought down on Twitter and I have already seen that he didn't disappoint,lol

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:21 am

I perceive the 'life force' as energy, the Spirit as energy. We really are 'the body electric', as far as we understand things today.
Not to downplay the wonder of Spirit, who is from the 'All In All'.

Plants and photosynthesis are a good way of understanding, I think.
The Light Energy taken in from the sun fuels/stimulates the processes needed to take the raw materials
from the earth, air, water and convert it into roots, stem, leaves, fruit.
The 'software' governing those processes is from God, Creator.

E=mc^2

Mass is energy, energy is mass; the equation builds a bridge between two seemingly disparate domains.

Mass is the body, energy is the light-life force, and what happens in every cell of every thing.

Energy can express in many (any) different form, and cannot be destroyed.
As the flesh wears down, which is a law of physics, it eventually quits. And the Life force, (which is an aware and thinking force) is released.

And that's a really terrible attempt at ideas that should be flowing out, but my energy must be really LOW today. Wink

But it's a bit of a starting point.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/e-mc2-what-does-einsteins-most-famous-equation-mean

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Fri Oct 28, 2022 9:45 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oyyXC5IzEE

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:16 pm

Here's one that might interest you all.

https://rumble.com/v1ntamy-the-phoenician-families-who-owncontrol-the-world.html

That's easy-it's only less than a minute long.
It's so short, I wrote it down.

Rothschild, Orsine, Farnese, Aldobrandini, Medici, Colona families

Here's the notes:

13 Bloodline families (not all are contained in this short TikTok video by this creator)
Who were the Children of Canaan?
Children of [CAIN]an?
What were the Canaanites?
Why did G-D command Joshua of Old, to “utterly destroy” the people of Canaan, “…even to every man, woman, and child”.
Why did Joshua FAIL?
Who was the 2nd Pope, and why is it significant?
They have fooled, controlled, and waged war on Mankind for thousands of years. They have annihilated entire species, nations, and cultures for money and power.
It is now time for THEIR PA!N.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:22 pm

Here's a concept I recall hearing. When the Spirit departs, it takes the soul with it.

Now. A redeemed soul goes to God (Spirit). (Millennial reign on a new earth? or Heaven? )

One who has aligned with dark spirits does not!

Redemption means becoming a new creature in Christ, conformed to His Image and Likeness.
There SHOULD BE no conflict between the soul and the Spirit. So, there is little from the 'soulish realm' that we need to be separated from. (the cleansing fire).

Notwithstanding that God gives GOOD GIFTS to His children who
follow His precepts. The Bible says It is His Good Pleasure to
give us the Kingdom.
Refrain from obtaining worldly things in worldly-sinful ways, and
instead, the Bible says, Ask your Father for such things.
He does not want any to suffer including suffer lack of any good
thing.
If we do not violate His Law in what we want or ask for, He is
Happy to have us PARTAKE of the RICHES of the KINGDOM.
It's surprising, but it's true. Wink

Something I wonder about is Acts 2. But it seems to have occurred at the time Peter preached it.

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judæa, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 for these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 and on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 and I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 the sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 and it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

But as that is NOT the case now, it seems to only apply to those who accept the gift of cleansing and Salvation of the
Cross. (dying to self-so that He might live in me.)

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:48 pm

1 John 1:5-10

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all
----
Therefore, the flesh, the physical body, being subject to sin, cannot inherit
the Kingdom of God.
--
Thus the Spirit walks us in the ways which we should go, as the Spirit is the
SEAL of our Redemption.

John 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Fri Oct 28, 2022 5:25 pm

A gift for you Michael. I didn't find it. It was 'given'.

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

In the light of world events and as we discuss prophecy, I believe these thoughts and ideas are very telling of a path some would love to take all of us on. If they have their say the devil closes the door on one Book that promises a special blessing for those who will read it and keep the words, revelation, and knowledge that is contained in it, and that one Book is the very last book of the Bible, the Book of Revelation.

“BLESSED is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.” (Revelation 1:3)

A growing number of well-known evangelical leaders today are teaching thousands of people that the world has a serious problem. The problem they describe is not what you might expect to hear, especially from evangelical leaders. They believe that those who claim Jesus is coming back soon and that the Earth will face a horrible Armageddon or judgment are actually the cause of the world's major problems and are prohibiting a time of great renewal from taking place. Talk of biblical end-time prophecy is considered by these men to be unnecessary and downright dangerous. Tony Campolo in his book, Speaking My Mind suggests that these types of end-time thinkers are even the cause of wars. He says, "Their doctrines are a major factor in determining a far-ranging set of consequences that include American policies regarding militarism, the emergence of evangelical Zionism, attitudes toward Palestinians and the role of American geopolitics." (p. 207) He later says their "impact on geopolitics can only lead to war." (p. 215).

Rick Warren suggests that Jesus doesn't want us to even think about prophecy or His return. Warren tells us that it is none of our business. He tells us that thinking about Jesus' return is a ploy by Satan to get us distracted. (PDL, pp. 285, 286)

Richard Abanes, author and speaker, in his book End-Time Visions: The Road to Armageddon, criticizes many Christians who believe we should discuss prophecy and that there is indeed a coming Armageddon. He puts solid, Bible-based Christian leaders in the same category as cult leaders such as David Koresh, who led his group to an untimely end.

Are these evangelicals the first ones to hate the idea of Armageddon and the disaster that is coming to the world before Christ returns? In the book, Reinventing Jesus Christ, he quotes Barbara Marx Hubbard who says that those who believe in an Armageddon are self-centered people who if not stopped will actually cause a self-fulfilling prophecy to take place - the destruction of the world.

Marx Hubbard tells us of a global peace plan and she calls it an "Armageddon alternative." This alternative can actually save the world from Armageddon, she says, but only if enough people believe it and only if the world can be rid of these self-centered doomsdayers. "The species known as self-centered humanity will become extinct. The species known as whole-centered humanity will evolve.... Those who choose this version of the future will be there. Those who do not choose it will not be there." Marx Hubbard's own book of "Revelation" describes a message she received from the "Christ": "You are to prepare the way for the alternative to Armageddon, which is the Planetary Pentecost, the great Instant of Co-operation which can transform enough, en masse, to avoid the necessity of the seventh seal being broken." She continues: "Tell them to recognize the God within themselves, and to follow that light through the darkness of tribulations to the dawn of the Universal Age, when only the God-conscious continue to exist, and everyone is like Christ. Those with the seal of the living God on their foreheads will be with Christ at the time of the Transformation. I cannot 'return' until enough of you are attracted and linked."

According to Marx Hubbard it is these self-centered believers that are standing in the way. And yet in the book of Revelation, in the last chapter, Jesus says not once but three times, "I am coming quickly," while John in the same chapter tells us not to seal the words of the prophecy because the time is at hand." In Reinventing Jesus Christ, he quotes Alice Bailey who was "told by her spirit guide over fifty years ago that the 'Forces of Darkness' would oppose the 'new gospel' and the 'New Age.' Is this new gospel and Transformation one and the same as Brian McLaren's New Kind of Christian and Emerging Church? Is it the same as Rick Warren's spiritual awakening and global Transformation? With so many similarities, one can only surmise that they may indeed be so. And if that is the case, will there be a growing hostility and anger towards those of us who say, Maranatha, come quickly Lord Jesus? (I Corinthians 16:22)

Elite Posts : 1954 Reputation : 62 Join date : 2012-01-05

All I need to do is underline the above text of Marx Hubbard and all of us should see she has received her message from a deceptive entity. Dark forces are using her to push an agenda for them.

to avoid the necessity of the seventh seal being broken."

The breaking of the seventh seal must take place in order for prophecy to be fulfilled to the letter. If prophecy fails for not only the seventh seal to be broken by Jesus Christ, but any of the first six then Jesus Christ will never return and set up his kingdom on this earth.

Without the breaking of the seventh seal there would never be a seventh trumpet. Without the seventh trumpet, read below in scripture what would not take place.

Revelation 10:7......."But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Revelation 11:15......."And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

On many occasions in scripture you will find where The LORD has told his people......"If you do this, a blessing/blessings will occur, but if you do not then, a judgment/judgments will occur."

You can not find any such thing within the prophecy of the seven seals, the seven trumpets, and the seven vials. These do not change........."They are judgments."

Revelation 1:1-3

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

There is a blessing for God's servants who read, hear the words of prophecy, and keep those things that are written within The Revelation. All of the prophecy must come to pass. No where does it say we can prevent or stop the prophecies from occurring. Anyone who is telling us we can, are attempting to deceive. They are attempting to add and take away from this Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22:18-19

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

And once again a blessing attached to this Revelation to those that "Keep" the sayings of the prophecy.

Revelation 22:7

Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Jesus Christ came to fulfill prophecy and will one day return to fulfill prophecy once again.

Subject: Re: The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:17 am

IF Revelation even once referred back to 2 Chronicles 7:14, then they might have a point.

14 if my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
------------
But instead, we are told:

Revelation 1:3
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

AND

Luke 21:36
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
----------------------

Judgement is coming upon the wicked. The righteous will be preserved till the Day of His Coming, whether 'here' on the earth, or 'taken' out of the way.
Dying is SALVATION to the Righteous.
Remaining Here, and protected from all that is coming is also for the Righteous, as we have heeded all warnings, and are led by His Spirit.
-----------------------
I agree that they are teaching a faulty message. Man will not over rule the Word of God.

What the Word says will happen, will happen.

YET !
Those who are 'REBORN', of the Spirit carry the Kingdom of God within them.
With man it is not possible. With God, All things are Possible.

I take this to mean, we ourselves cannot make ourselves worthy. (I can find scripture)
But ALWAYS if God has a condition for us that WE cannot meet--He does it for us.  (verses for that too)
----
It's so simple, I don't know why a preacher would not understand it.
The Fruit and the Gifts of the INDWELLING Holy Spirit of GOD, flow through us as we yield to Him in ALL things. IF we meet with Him each morning as Jesus did, and be filled anew,
As Paul said, as Jesus said in so many words (I of Myself do Nothing!) we die to self so that He might live in and through Me.

Well, if the Holy Spirit IS the Kingdom of God, as the Word says flat out, then He will bring
the Kingdom to the earth as He, by the Tribulation, cleanses the earth and those upon it,
rids the world of evil, and we will have the fullness of the Kingdom on the earth when Jesus returns to rule and reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.    The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 8 1f60a

The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation - Page 8 1f60a

   I want to know the thoughts of God. Everything else is just details.
     A Miracle is when God makes His Reality our Experience

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