The Bible, Tribulation, Revelation

I ran across this video while having lunch.  Although I haven't watched it completely I thought it was interesting. ( Prophecy Watchers ) titled  The Coming Beast System  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIEo7JB61lU  The 16 1/2 minute mark where they speak about  spiritual dullness  happening during the shutdown and people not " waking up" seems very real . Society has gotten much worse so quickly.

I appreciate it ScaRZ.  Whenever you might have the time.

These are my thoughts and it will be a long post. Way too much for only a short answer.

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Daniel 9:24-27

Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.


There are three views about the 70th week of Daniel........Already fulfilled, Partially fulfilled, or Not yet fulfilled.

Already fulfilled....Is the most popular view throughout church history.

Not yet fulfilled....Is the one I held for several years, but after much studying I no longer think this is correct. It is the view that's still awaiting a full future fulfilment and is where the final week (7 years) of Daniel's prophecy falls in line with 7 years of the tribulation.

Partially fulfilled....Is the view where one half (3 and 1/2 years) have already been fulfilled and all that remains is the final 3 and 1/2 years of the week.

I now believe the weakest view is "Not yet fulfilled". In my opinion the two other views are the strongest. As of this day I lean more to "Partially fulfilled".



I now view the 7+62 weeks as being fulfilled when Jesus was revealed to John the Baptist as The Messiah (Christ) and was Baptized. After the 69th week had ended and the 70th week begins is when The Messiah would be "cut off" (Die on the cross).....Within the 70th week.

The 70th week began after Jesus was revealed and Baptized. Jesus Christ at this point in time begins his ministry and his revealing as The Messiah for 3 and 1/2 years before he is "cut off" (Dies on the cross for our sins).

John 1:29-34

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

This is he of whom I said, 'After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.'

I myself did not know him, but for this purpose I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel."

And John bore witness: "I saw the Spirit descend from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him.

I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, 'He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.'

And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God."

John the Baptist as we can read did not know him but it was revealed to him who he was.





I need to now lay this out because I believe it holds great importance. I will not go into great detail at this time but must put it down right now.

Think about The Man of Sin how he also will be revealed and have his beginning as The Antichrist. I think it is very possible that he will fulfill the final 3 and 1/2 years of the 70th week.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


In Scripture we only read of 3.5 prophetic years in the eschaton just before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. The “Two Witnesses” of Revelation 11:3 prophecy for only 3.5 years. The “Woman” flees into the wilderness and is fed for 3.5 years per Revelation 12:6. John in Revelation 13:5 writes that this persecution by the Beast will last for 3.5 years. Daniel calls it a “Time Of Trouble” in Daniel 12:7 and is told by a Messenger (Angel) that it lasts for 3.5 years. The prophetic texts only speak of 3.5 years. 

Continued:

Throughout the church history the "Already fulfilled" has been the one most have believed to be true. The covenant was established for “one week/7 years”........ half in Messiah’s ministry until He died on the cross (3.5 years), then the other half from that day forward until AD 34 when Stephen was stoned. (3.5 years) The gospel was then formally presented to the Gentiles.

The "Already fulfilled" view this prophecy as being all about the Jewish people and Jerusalem. It had nothing to do with the gentiles until after the death of Stephen. Once Stephen was stoned to death the "one week/7 years was fulfilled.


This below is from LXX scriptures (Septuagint)/English Translation.

24 Seventy weeks have been determined upon thy people, and upon the holy city, for sin to be ended, and to seal up transgressions, and to blot out the iniquities, and to make atonement for iniquities, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy.

25 And thou shalt know and understand, that from the going forth of the command for the answer and for the building of Jerusalem until Christ the prince there shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks; and then the time shall return, and the street shall be built, and the wall, and the times shall be exhausted.

26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations.

27 And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation.


Here is what Jesus spoke in Luke 4:16-21.

Luke 4:16-21


And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Now I will post the prophecy in Isaiah 61 and show what was and was not fulfilled.

Isaiah 61:1-3........ “The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD (<– Fulfilled |  Not Yet Fulfilled –>), and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.”

This is just one example that makes me think there could be a "Partially fulfilled" last one half week/3.5 Years of Daniel's Prophecy remaining to be fulfilled.

Continued:

I believe there is a good possibility that Daniel 9:26 and also Daniel 9:27 are both a split prophecy. The first half of each verse is focused on Jesus Christ and the second half of each verse relates to The Antichrist. I will post both below and show what I'm referring to. I will color in each verse the half that I believe is referring to Jesus Christ in Blue and the half that I believe could be referring to The Antichrist in Orange.

Daniel 9:26........"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined."

Daniel 9:27........"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

But with respect to the 70th week of Daniel, however, if only the first half is fulfilled then the other half is yet to be fulfilled. But what would that be? The answer I believe should be very obvious: the 1260 days / 42 months / time, times and the dividing of time spoken of by the prophet Daniel and John in Revelation.

The One who confirms the Covenant is not the Abomination that desolates. Jesus Christ confirms the Covenant. The Antichrist will be the one who makes desolate....."He will be the Destroyer."

There is an alternating pattern in verses 26-27 that is a common Hebrew usage. The first half of verse 26 refers to The Messiah (Jesus Christ), the second half to an evil prince. The first half of verse 27 refers to The Messiah (Jesus Christ) and the second half refers to the abomination in the temple introduced by the evil prince.

A key to always remember is that Scripture is inspired, chapter and verse divisions were all added by men.


I did my best to lay out all three views of the prophecy in Daniel 9. Then I made sure to write why I do not believe the "Not yet fulfilled" is correct and why I now rule it out. The other two I can not rule either one of them out.

I see nothing in scripture that in any way points to 7 Years of Tribulation, I see nothing of a 7 Year peace treaty between The Man of Sin and Israel, then The Man of Sin breaking it after 3.5 Years........"And that in Daniel 9 is exactly where those who believe the "Not yet fulfilled" all hang their hats on a signing of a treaty for 7 Years that start the 7 Years of Tribulation." There is no mention of a “peace treaty” that many often insert, nor is there any mention of a rebuilt Jewish temple that many often envision.

Let me lay it out again and I will show you what I'm talking about. He (Jesus Christ) in the last week that is the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy half way through will die on the cross for our sins. Jesus Christ with his death on the cross "Puts a Stop" to all sacrifices and offerings. Let me break it down a little more and I will add a few of my thoughts into the scripture, and add some other scripture that I believe helps understanding.


This is some of the reasons why I now view Daniel's Prophecy as "Partially fulfilled".

Daniel 9:27, “Then he shall confirm a covenant [‘the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ’ (Gal 3:17)] with many [‘this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many’ (Matt 26:28)] for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering [‘For the law … can never with these same sacrifices … make those who approach perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered?’ (Heb 10:1-2)]. (<– Jesus Christ | The Man of Sin –>) And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate. [‘when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel … then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again (Matt 25:15,21)].”


There is no breaking of a covenant in Dan 9:27. It is “confirmed” (strengthened), meaning that it must be something that had already existed or was promised.

In my view, the position which states that a covenant is broken is not supported by the text and is instead presumed, and a presumption that is compounded by another presumption that is nowhere in the text, which is to say, that the ceasing of the sacrifice and offerings is the work of someone other than Jesus Christ.

Many view the 70th week as entirely fulfilled. I can not argue against that position, it was the one the Church held for 19 centuries and very well could be the correct view.

Why I lean towards only 3.5 years fulfilled with 3.5 years remaining however are the two subjects of verse 26 and 27 whereby the second is said to take place in the end “until the consummation” (the full end or complete destruction is poured out on the desolator). I believe this is pointing directly to The Man of Sin.

The consummation of all things will take place at the Second Coming of Christ.

With the repeated descriptions of 3.5 years of “great tribulation” outlined by Daniel and John and referenced by Jesus Christ in Matthew 24 further reinforces for me this position, and also Paul’s reference in 2 Thessalonians 2 of the future revealing of the “man of sin/lawlessness” and his complete destruction at Christ’s coming. 

Continues:

The Hebrew text of Daniel 9:27 says that He confirms the covenant “one” week, this in the sense can be taken to mean that the covenant itself only lasts for the duration of “one week”, but then again it can be taken that the confirmation of the covenant is what happens in/within the one week.

“For” isn’t in the original Hebrew text and isn't in the The LXX scriptures (Septuagint)/English Translation renders Daniel 9:27 to say “And one week shall establish the covenant with many”.

Some translations like the Lexham English Bible and the Darby Translation put the word “For” in brackets to let the reader know it isn’t in the original.

We need to be aware that it could just as easily be “in one week” or “for the one week” every bit as much as “for one week.  


I believe most prophecy teachers of today line up with a seven year tribulation period and a complete future fulfillment of the 70th week of Daniel. I was brought up teething on Traditional Dispensationalism which taught a seven year tribulation that needs to begin after a Pre-Trib Rapture. Every teacher I listened and read their material "Always" went straight to Daniel 9 to pull a seven year tribulation out of the text.

I once held that view but to be totally honest I never was all that comfortable with it. The more I began to read scripture for myself, the more I moved away from that view of things. To me there are just too many of those ideas that do not fit after years of study. I'm not saying that all that teach a seven year tribulation believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture......"But a great many do."

I will tell everybody that I no longer believe in a Seven Year Tribulation (I believe in 3.5 years of Great Tribulation that are to be fulfilled), or a Seven Year Peace Treaty with Israel and The Man of Sin =The Antichrist ( I see no treaty at all), or a Not Yet Fulfilled 70th Week of Daniel (I now lean towards a Partially Fulfilled=3.5 years), or a Pre-Trib Rapture (I believe in a meeting in the air at The Last Trumpet/Seventh), or All Seven Seals remaining to be broken (I now believe The First 5 Seals have been broken and have for many years).

Wow !!!!  Thank you Scars.  These  are  fantastic  postings and  have given me a lot to digest. The 3 1/2 years = and  the cross fits.   As I was reading , I thought to myself "this makes so much sense"' !!.

bordercollie wrote:

Wow !!!!  Thank you Scars.  These  are  fantastic  postings and  have given me a lot to digest. The 3 1/2 years = and  the cross fits.   As I was reading , I thought to myself "this makes so much sense"' !!.

Thank you for reading it and also the kind words.

Wonderful study.  So much to work with.  Like Judy, I was really impressed with the 3.5 years, especially in relation to Jesus' ministry.  

The thought that came was of 'the voice of the Bride and the Bridegroom heard no more...'      

In the final 3.5 years (the Great Tribulation),  one prevailing thought is the 'shift' from the world at large to Israel specifically, and the coming of the two witnesses to (unbelieving) Israel which works well with all that. 

There's so much more to take from these posts.   It's going to take time.  (and ScaRZ says, 'tell me about it! or You don't have to tell me!' lol)

The other thing I wish we had, and perhaps do, is the years of occurrences, some sense of chronological progression. 
My brain goes back to 'can these dry bones live again'?  And does that speak to Israel as a nation, because that always seemed like a true anchor point of the timeline. 

I'm sure not asking anyone to attempt Bible chronology; just if someone knows of an already existing study.  And I'll look for one too. 

So, much yet to glean from the posts, ScaRZ. Thanks very much for taking the time.  Blessings!

You are welcome Dove. It is a very, very deep topic and one that I believe is not thought about enough. This answers a lot of questions that for me shine a bright light on why The World will not view The Man of Sin (The Antichrist)......"As the Big Lie".

"He (The Man of Sin) will be revealed", but not to The World......"Remember The World is in darkness (The Night)". Without light in them there is nothing to penetrate the darkness to those of The Night.

There are those of The Light however that The Man of Sin......"Will be revealed to". These who are chosen will enlighten those of The Flock (The Sheep). These will be hated by The World. There is "No Gray Area" between Darkness and Light.

1 Thessalonians 5:4-5


But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.


For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness.

Hebrews 2:9......."But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

At one time Jesus was a little lower than the angels. He had an earthly body that was not eternal just like all of us. Jesus while he was in his earthly body could not appear and disappear. When trouble appeared in front of him, he also had to move around it. He was a man with all the temptations of you and I. The only difference was that he never fell into rebellion and sin as all others have.

Jesus Christ after his resurrection became the firstfruits of many to follow by putting on a new body. He could appear and be seen, then not be seen. Jesus was no longer a little lower than the angels.

hmm..I see I seemed to have agreed with the post covering Jesus' restraints as a man. But that does not account for all He did in the Power of the Anointing. 

One simple thing we know is that the Holy Spirit departed from Him while the flesh suffered death.
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If the interpretation you posted was true, how do you account for any miracle performed through Him? (which is how He Himself described them.  "I of Myself do nothing...")

Dove wrote:

hmm..I see I seemed to have agreed with the post covering Jesus' restraints as a man. But that does not account for all He did in the Power of the Anointing. 

One simple thing we know is that the Holy Spirit departed from Him while the flesh suffered death.
---
If the interpretation you posted was true, how do you account for any miracle performed through Him? (which is how He Himself described them.  "I of Myself do nothing...")

I was only talking about his "Body".....Flesh and Blood as we humans are. Jesus did not have a heavenly body until his resurrection took place. Hebrews 2:9 of being a little lower than the angels was the idea of the post. Jesus while in human flesh was not like the angels. 

I never once said anything about the miracles. 

Most certainly The Holy Spirit worked within him.......As you mentioned...."I of myself do nothing."

Jesus was always about doing the Will of The Father.

We can never forget....Jesus was in a man's body......."As all humans are."

Luke 22:40-43........"And when he came to the place, he said to them, "Pray that you may not enter into temptation.......And he withdrew from them about a stone's throw, and knelt down and prayed,.......saying, "Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.......And there appeared to him an angel from heaven, strengthening him."


Jesus needed to be strengthened, and The Father sent an angel for that purpose. We all in this human body need time and time again to be strengthened by The LORD God.

I understand what you are saying.   It's good.

Well..one thing. When you said He, while in the body, could not appear or disappear, but I remember when they had Him surrounded, went to grab Him, but he had disappeared from within their midst and they could not find Him.

Then there's the 'walking on water'.  They were afraid they were seeing a ghost, but he took Peter's hand  ???

Dove wrote:

Well..one thing. When you said He, while in the body, could not appear or disappear, but I remember when they had Him surrounded, went to grab Him, but he had disappeared from within their midst and they could not find Him.

Then there's the 'walking on water'.  They were afraid they were seeing a ghost, but he took Peter's hand  ???

There is no way he became invisible while he was in the flesh. If you can find it in the Bible that he could become invisible (That's what I meant by disappear) then prove it......."Post where it is in The Bible."

They saw him walking on water......."He was not a spiritual bodied person." Jesus while he was a fleshly bodied man never put on a spiritual body until his resurrection had taken place. Again......"If you can prove it, then please post the verse/verses."

If I understand, you're saying specifically He did not become invisible.  Such as He was standing in front of them but they couldn't see Him.  And no, I don't know of that description of events either.

I do think I can find instances of 'appearing and disappearing'.

And the quickest to find example that came to mind was of Philip and the eunich in Acts 8:26-40.

Verse 39, reads:
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Cæsarea.


which sounds like an example of appearing and disappearing, but not of invisibility.

So I just took a look, and  " the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip,"


The word, caught away is the rapture word (verb), harpazo.  


meaning:
 caught up (4x), by force (3x), caught away (1x), catcheth away (1x), pluck (2x), catcheth (1x), pulling (1x).



 to seize (in various applications):—catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).



[list=yui-gen79][*]to seize, carry off by force

[*]to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly

[*]to snatch out or away


[/list]
Contd.

Other verses where it appears:

Mat 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take G726 ➔ it by force. G726

Mat 13:19
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away G726 that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Jhn 6:15
When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take G726 ➔ him by force, G726 to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

Jhn 10:12
But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth G726 them, and scattereth the sheep.

 Jhn 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall G726 ➔ any man pluck G726 them out of my hand.

Jhn 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck G726 them out of my Father's hand.

Act 23:10
And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take G726 ➔ him by force G726 from among them, and to bring him into the castle.

 2Co 12:2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up G726 to the third heaven.


contd

ScaRZ wrote:

There is no way he became invisible while he was in the flesh. If you can find it in the Bible that he could become invisible (That's what I meant by disappear) then prove it......."Post where it is in The Bible."

 This once again is what I was referring to.....Very skimpily what I wrote above in the quote. You are bringing things into this that have nothing to do with Jesus being a flesh and blood bodied man and having the ability to become invisible/disappear/vanish into thin air before witnesses......"Then reappear." After his resurrection, that is a totally different story. 

Jesus was the first fruits of the resurrection. This is the taking off of the old flesh body and the putting on of a new body. Jesus was the first....."Others will follow."

I can never seem to get you (Dove) to understand. 

Jesus in the flesh did not have a different body than all of us. He was born of a woman. 

Think about how many times Jesus is referred to as The Son of Man in The Bible........In the New Testament (KJV..42 Times)

The Rapture/ Meeting in The Air..... has absolutely nothing to do with this, that is a completely different story.

Here is a great example of Jesus able to move through, move around danger. Some want to add to the text and imply it says something it doesn't. There is nothing hinted here that our Lord rendered himself invisible, or that he smote his enemies with a temporary blindness. 

Luke 4:28-30........"When they heard these things, all in the synagogue were filled with wrath........And they rose up and drove him out of the town and brought him to the brow of the hill on which their town was built, so that they could throw him down the cliff........But passing through their midst, he went away."

Another great example......John 8:59........"So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

I'm sorry ScaRZ.  I don't mean to frustrate you.  Yesterday was a 200 mph day for me all day, so I
probably should have waited on commenting. (and I don't know if I'm reaching everyone. You know
the Anunnaki.  And 17 cities to evacuate by the 25th?  It's not the British that are coming.) 
Will it be Orson Wells type chaos?  That truck that took down the bridge yesterday was one of the 17.
There will be more. Making it harder to flee. I've been wrestling with the 'double speak' and the
crumbs dropped across multiple boards, while engaging double speak myself out of necessity...

 So, I'll try to slow down here. When you said 'invisible' in the flesh, I'm with you. I know of no instance recorded where He was invisible in the flesh body.  So I thought maybe you were referring to times when He 'appeared or disappeared in their midst', which IS spoken of, so I went there.  

Then going to Philip and the eunich was quicker than finding the instances where Jesus 'disappeared',
but it was the same scenario in that Philip was in his flesh body, yet filled with the Holy Spirit as was
Jesus.  

Then I thought I'd better do a word search to see if verse 39 is saying what I think it is.  And yes, it
does.  Phillip didn't just get sent down the road by the Holy Spirit.  He was harpazo'd-snatched up-
taken away-transported and relocated by the Spirit.  
And I think that's how Jesus 'appeared and disappeared' as well.  But I agree, that's not what we mean by 'invisible'.  

I don't feel I'm adding or taking away. I don't think Philip's experience in the flesh surpassed what Jesus had or could do with the Spirit in the flesh.  

THEN..  I'm staring at all the verses which show the true meaning of 'harpazo' as exactly what the Rapture believers think and expect, and this is the 'Bible thread', so I went on and added them. 
------
I guess 'invisible' threw me from the beginning as I don't think it's spoken of either.
Peace?   

Dove wrote:

Phillip didn't just get sent down the road by the Holy Spirit.  He was harpazo'd-snatched up-
taken away-transported and relocated by the Spirit.  
And I think that's how Jesus 'appeared and disappeared' as well.  But I agree, that's not what we mean by 'invisible'.  

I think this was a great subject to dive into. I don't think many people look into it. Your layout about Phillip and his taken away, I brought that subject up somewhere in one of my threads. The search engine is not very good here at The Watcher Forum, but I will see if I can find it and post it again. Take care Dove and thank you for all of your post. We need interaction, we all can learn from each other.

I've been watching and reading some of Tim Alberion's videos and material for a few months. Michael as well as Researcher posted some things about him and from him in the threads I believe. I watched this video yesterday and all I can really say is Wow! I thought Tim lay out material that cut deep into areas that I've studied for years. I really enjoy listening to Tim. 

There are things he brings up that the vast majority of people are blind to. Daniel and Revelation are brought to the forefront and come alive. This material in my opinion is what TPTB, both human and nonhuman try and keep suppressed. For the vast majority of the human population the dark forces win.

The main theme Tim kept laying out was.......The "Rebirth" of The Golden Age of the gods......."Is Coming". What occurred in the past will rise again......"The beast that rises out of the sea." 

Mankind's search for immortality will become their worst nightmare.

The video is long, but for me time flew by. If you have some time, watch it. Tim begins talking in around two minutes. Just zip forward and cut through the sales push at the start.

The Resurgence of the Empire of Gods | Tim Alberino

There are no coincidences.  And your timing is perfect, ScaRZ .   

Besides how I began my post to you yesterday, and getting ads
for the past week of a game,   "Empire of Gods" featured.

The fact that we are moving into a 'whole new world', built on gold-QFS. 
Think Trump and gold.

Tim says the history we've been taught is wrong.  That's a Q point.

In the first 10 seconds as Tim speaks, he asks for water.  The plaque on the podium features a prominent E. 

I'll keep notes as I listen for what else may connect to 'now'.  And everyone should watch this now-today.
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2 minutes in and I'm blown away!!!  I've heard this and heard this from the voice of Q over the years.  And the messages (the puzzle pieces I've been chasing say 'the revealing' is NOW.  We are about to see it)

That we must 'go back' through time..to the beginning, Genesis. 
Someone come lift my jaw off the floor.

I'm planning on watching it again later today Dove. Yes! 100%......Back to Genesis. History, I also believe and have for a very long time has been taught wrong. A great deal has been suppressed and hidden away, or turned into fables......"Children's fairy tales". 

The ten toes of the great image in Daniel and how it all relates to the ten horns of the beast that rises out of the sea in Revelation. 

The Golden Age of Atlantis, a city built by the gods and the hybrid children. How it all plays into the future for a rebirth, as we who can hear the knock at the door.

Moved info to:
https://watchermeet-up.forumotion.com/t24894-in-the-midst-of-aliens?highlight=Aliens

A got a new start date today.  Add 2 days.

The buzz is in High gear. 
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Dove wrote:

The only thing Tim said that threw me begins  at 1 hour-1 hour 6 mins, where he was talking about humanity.
I take 'humanity' to mean 'human', and the human condition is the flesh.
And flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom.
Even those who are alive and remain at His Coming shall be changed.  
So I'm not sure what he was thinking there.  

Dove, I have written things on the same subject Tim was referring to. Tim and I view the words spoken by Jesus Christ "Could" be taken differently than most believe it to be........."And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

I would say most see this as mankind being totally destroyed by warfare if God did not step in......."Not even the elect would make it through without death." If prophecy is to be fulfilled, this can not and will not occur. The days then must be shortened. There are many different views on what it's all about by the meaning of "Shortening the days".

Tim and I see that it also could be that through mankind's genetics, through the whole hybrid corruption of the DNA of Mankind which leads us all the way back to The Man (Adam)......Remember this true DNA rode out the flood and made it to begin replenishing the earth through Noah, his sons and their wives. 

If that had not come to be then Jesus would never have been born......."And there would be no humans saved." Jesus came to save the true DNA of mankind that was created in The Man (Adam). Remember Jesus Christ is the second Adam, what we are to follow and be also (A New Adam). But that DNA will survive by the "Shortening of those days".

As it was in the days of Noah will  play out once again. 

Think of all the remaining true DNA of humans (Man=Adam) during this time known as The Great Tribulation being totally wiped out by the corruption of the DNA, the true genetic makeup. There would be no true human being "To Save". Even the elect would be lost if the days were not shortened by The LORD God.

I'm watching this  tonight ! Yes Mike loved this guy and introduced me to him several years ago ( on you tube) .   Thank ya'll again -   Tense times ahead- I can feel it and I can sense it . God bless and keep each of you safe.

bordercollie wrote:

I'm watching this  tonight ! Yes Mike loved this guy and introduced me to him several years ago ( on you tube) .   Thank ya'll again -   Tense times ahead- I can feel it and I can sense it . God bless and keep each of you safe.

I'm glad you are watching the video Judy. I also watched it again late yesterday afternoon. He brought into it his thoughts on how The Watchers took on the ability to mate and have offspring. Somewhere in the threads I posted my thoughts about this and I view it as Tim.

They were never from the genetic code of man. They were not our kind but were in fact a strange flesh to man as well as man being a strange flesh to them. While they were "In Heaven" they never were able to produce offspring, but passing into our earthly realm they were given the ability to produce.

Jude 1:6......."And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Their first estate (Their own principality).

Principality is rule and authority.

The Watchers gave this up because of their desire for women and offspring.

Their first estate = their own principality......Key verse in scripture of rule and authority.........Ephesians 3:10...."so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places."

They kept not (preserved not) their own rule and authority.


They left their own habitation (House).......oikiterion.


Now lets read 2 Corinthians 5:2 and things become much clearer.



2 Corinthians 5:2......."For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:"


We groan because we are now in this (Our earthly Tent, House).

House.... here is the same word from Jude 1:6......"Habitation" (oikiterion).

Here is how I view this happening.

These Heavenly Host left their own rule and authority in Heaven and by doing this lost their Heavenly House (Heavenly Habitation). They no longer had a heavenly body (House). Things now had changed for them as they put on a different covering.

When we read what is written in 2 Corinthians 5 about our Earthly Body (Tent) we can see how we groan to be clothed upon with our Heavenly Body (Habitation, House). Off with the earthly, on with the heavenly.

Dove wrote:

I had never listened to Tim.  I had no idea what he knew.  Stellar. And perfect for the present and coming hour.  I'll be looking for others of his now, after this one digests.  If you have another recommendation, please post it.

I would recommend his series of videos on his book "Birthright". Here is one of them related to the topic we have been discussing.

https://timothyalberino.com/

Birthright Series, Part 9 | Empire of the Gods

I found a video by Brenda Weltner  .  She also believes the  cross was where Messiah was cut off and was the 3 1/2 year point.    17  1/2 minutes long . Discusses this at the 9/10 minute mark- or thereabouts. Very exciting - unless I "mislistened", it sounds like Scars' study.  I need to listen again  but need to go back to work for a while.   

Tim Alberion's lay out of The Prodigal Son Parable was well thought out. Adam (Man) squandering away his seat at the table of The Heavenly Family of The Father. The reference to the swine and how well it soaks into the picture that is painted in The Biblical narrative.

Tim's reference to the servants that are not of The Family of God, but are others within creation that serve The Family. They are not of the same kind (Family) as those that image God. Adam (Man) was made to image God as well as all Sons of God.

Adam (Man).....repentance, willing to be as a servant....not a son, The Father with open arms welcoming the son a seat (The seat he once occupied) at the table of The Family of The Father......"was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found."


Birthright Series, Part 3 | The Prodigal Son

bordercollie wrote:

I found a video by Brenda Weltner  .  She also believes the  cross was where Messiah was cut off and was the 3 1/2 year point.    17  1/2 minutes long . Discusses this at the 9/10 minute mark- or thereabouts. Very exciting - unless I "mislistened", it sounds like Scars' study.  I need to listen again  but need to go back to work for a while.   

I just now watched the video Judy, and Brenda does a great job of laying things out. This is the first time I've ever heard, watched or read anything of Brenda's. There are however some other people that take the view as both she and I do. By far we are however the minority.

I began studying about this view only a few years ago. I also was in camp with the seven year tribulation. The more I read and studied The Bible it was very evident that the Bible did not reflect what I had been taught. I also read some other peoples material on this subject and the puzzle became so clear....."It fit together."

This is no different than other beliefs that for me I was somehow, someway never comfortable with. This is why I truly believe "We" are to search things out. Never just seal into your heart what everybody else takes as pure gold. For years I was no different than most people (Believers)......"I was just a lazy Believer." 

Proverbs 25:2........"It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out.

Thank you Judy for posting the video.

I watched this yesterday and it was very informative about many topics. When Tim gets going it's something to behold. I've been watching a lot of his work the last few days. In the video he mentions some of Michael Heiser's and David Flynn's work. I certainly think he is correct in the iron age symbolism of prophecy. We must think about who wrote scripture and the timeframe in which they lived. 

Tim Alberino: Transhumanism, Aliens and Bible Prophecy

I'm so glad to be able to view this forum and topic. Our internet just came back on .(  We lost DSL internet this weekend due to the storms)  and it gave me much to think about- I realized how much  I had come to depend on viewing  our topics not available on the airways. I couldn't use my cell phone after a bit for viewing because it also started "acting funny" .  Anyways so very grateful for ya'll here.  Keep eyes open- never have I seen so much  strange  bad weather covering such a vast area- unless with a hurricane.

bordercollie wrote:

I'm so glad to be able to view this forum and topic. Our internet just came back on .(  We lost DSL internet this weekend due to the storms)  and it gave me much to think about- I realized how much  I had come to depend on viewing  our topics not available on the airways. I couldn't use my cell phone after a bit for viewing because it also started "acting funny" .  Anyways so very grateful for ya'll here.  Keep eyes open- never have I seen so much  strange  bad weather covering such a vast area- unless with a hurricane.

Very good to hear your internet service is back up again. The weather is something else that's for sure.

This question was ask.

Why do we need Christ? I don't believe, yet i have no prejudice against religion. I don't hate Muslims or Islam. I don't hate Christians.  I'm generally nice to my neighbors, i return things i find like wallets and mobile phones, i help people when they need help. I would consider myself a generally nice person. I'm not saying I'm perfect, my point here is to explain that there are good honest people in our world that aren't religious. Why do i need Christ in my life when I'm perfectly happy with my own personal beliefs?


I tried my best to answer it in a way that hopefully they will think about. Many times these type of questions come from someone who believes everything is based upon being a pretty good person. 


As a believer and follower of Jesus Christ I believe I am to share with others the saving grace of The Lord as well as the good news (Gospel) of his coming Kingdom. I do not consider myself a religious person..........."I'm a believer and follower of Jesus Christ." In my opinion there is a big difference.

It doesn't matter how good we "Think" we are. We must come to the point of understanding we will never be good enough.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the good news about who Jesus Christ is, what Jesus Christ has done for mankind, and how that changes everything for us. The sin of mankind, the death of Jesus The Christ on the cross to pay for those sins, the resurrection of Jesus Christ to provide life everlasting for those who follow Him, and the offer of the free gift of salvation. But the reality and repentance of our sin needs to be acknowledged by all who approach the throne of God for salvation. 

There is not one person on the face of this earth that can "Make You Believe". What one chooses to believe or not believe is all up to them. I'm a believer and follower of Jesus Christ, but I never have and never will attempt to "Force" someone to believe. Once someone begins an attempt to force feed someone, they are getting out of The Will of God and entering a dark path that is not of God.

Eventually every person will choose the path they travel.  Not one person can take that away from any of us. When in the long haul it's all said and done we will have absolutely no excuse. I can't blame you and you can't blame me......"What I see in the mirror is the true image I bear."

No matter how often or how long I or any other believer and follower of Jesus Christ brings a message of the saving grace of The Lord to an individual it will never take root in that person without first being "Drawn by The Father". A believer can sow the seed but without the sun and the water it will never produce any fruit.

Dan is an incredible talent.